Mori NTX2000

[Ewood42]

Management is looking at getting one with a gantry loader for some of our larger bits. I'm definitely not sold on it yet, I think we'd be better off buying another two NL3000s (or possibly a similar lathe with a sub spindle and bar feeder), but I haven't done enough research on the NTX yet.

 

All I know is if they buy it, I'm not touching the post except for minor tweaks - they can buy one for it.

[nickbe10]

Even if you get a good post you will need a machine sim. And the standard is not all that helpful.

Look into the MIll / Turn module option if they have one for this machine. We had a demo a couple of weeks ago and I think that's where we are going for our Doosan MX and TT. The B axis head is especially problematic.

[Ewood42]

Anyone else have experience with this machine? They're still not entirely settled on it, and I'd love to hear from someone who's had experience working with this specific machine.

They're looking at the model with head/lower turret and a gantry loader. Bar feed won't do use much good, we're looking at this machine to handle larger parts, and the tube is only 3.5" (max 2.5" stock with a liner installed). I'm not even sure the gantry loader can handle most of the parts we're looking at running here. I believe it's max load is 40lbs., and the stock for some of our more common large  parts is in excess of 60lbs.

[Brad Lisle]

Have you looked into the Okuma Multus U3000? CNC Software has a M/T Okuma certified post available. We have one that we can show local to the Portland area.

[Ewood42]

15 hours ago, Brad Lisle said:

Have you looked into the Okuma Multus U3000? CNC Software has a M/T Okuma certified post available. We have one that we can show local to the Portland area.

Does it have a gantry loader option? Does not look like it could bar feed the stock diameter we would be using. I did run the idea by management of just picking up any mill/turn machine and letting me set up a Fanuc robot for material handling, but they did not seem too interested in going that route... yet. Maybe they'll change their tune if it means getting a comparable machine and part changing setup cheaper than the MTX through DMG. We're definitely trying to move toward more automation here, that is a must with the next machine purchase. Must be able to run, once set up, for minimum of 12 hours untended since we do not have a graveyard shift.

[mkd]

From what i understand the newer generation of Mazak mill-turns has relatively large spindle bores. Class leading, IIRC.

[GoetzInd]

I would look closely at the OKUMA Multus U3000 and also the Nakamura NTRX-300

 

Mike

[Ewood42]

10 minutes ago, GoetzInd said:

I would look closely at the OKUMA Multus U3000 and also the Nakamura NTRX-300

 

Mike

Does not appear that the Nakamura has a turret option... did I miss that on the spec page? Being able to work on both spindles concurrently is a must.

[Ewood42]

50 minutes ago, mkd said:

From what i understand the newer generation of Mazak mill-turns has relatively large spindle bores. Class leading, IIRC.

Thanks for the lead. They might have something that's a better fit than the NTX for our purposes. Need to find something that can bar feed up to 5.5", or a gantry loader that can handle up to 75lbs. 

Does not suit our need, but damn that Integrex i AM series looks like it could be fun to program.

[mkd]

23 minutes ago, Ewood42 said:

....

Does not suit our need, but damn that Integrex i AM series looks like it could be fun to program.

We're masochists

 

[Ewood42]

1 hour ago, mkd said:

We're masochists

 

Some days it sure seems that way.

[Tim Johnson]

19 hours ago, Ewood42 said:

Thanks for the lead. They might have something that's a better fit than the NTX for our purposes. Need to find something that can bar feed up to 5.5", or a gantry loader that can handle up to 75lbs.

Does not suit our need, but damn that Integrex i AM series looks like it could be fun to program.

That Intregrex i AM does look fun but this r300 looks funner.

[Mick]

What size bar are you looking at running?

We have an Okuma U3000-1500 2SW (Twin spindle, twin turret). Its a great machine.

Can't give you feedback on the post, as we use TopSolid for that machine.

[Ewood42]

18 hours ago, Mick said:

What size bar are you looking at running?

We have an Okuma U3000-1500 2SW (Twin spindle, twin turret). Its a great machine.

Can't give you feedback on the post, as we use TopSolid for that machine.

The part we are using as a standard for quoting this machine uses 5.5" round stock.

[Mick]

6 hours ago, Ewood42 said:

The part we are using as a standard for quoting this machine uses 5.5" round stock.

Ok, that is a big chunk of stock to barfeed  I'm only used to smaller diameters

[mkd]

7 hours ago, Ewood42 said:

The part we are using as a standard for quoting this machine uses 5.5" round stock.

Dang! Guessing we're only talking a bar puller, not a Bar feeder?

[Ewood42]

17 hours ago, Mick said:

Ok, that is a big chunk of stock to barfeed  I'm only used to smaller diameters

I have not come across a bar feeder that can feed stock that big either. That's why we're looking into a gantry loader, but I believe the gantry loader available on the NTX can only lift about half the weight of the slug. What is a bar puller? Never heard of one.

Pretty sure one of the big mill turn machines at the shop I interned at years back could feed up to 4", but that was the biggest I had ever personally seen. Like I said, not sure what we need even exists.

May end up going with a Fanuc arm if I get my way, I know how to program and run those, and it wouldn't be too hard to set it up to trigger a few different load/unload programs straight off the mill without a PLC. Though I guess to be OSHA compliant I'd need to cage it off and set up a stupid number of interlock switches...

[mkd]

there are tool mounted spring and coolant-pressure activated designs for pulling bars from turret motion.

US Shop tools has the spring style.

but at 5.5" that still might be over the design limits.

[Newbeeee™]

41 minutes ago, mkd said:

there are tool mounted spring and coolant-pressure activated designs for pulling bars from turret motion.

US Shop tools has the spring style.

but at 5.5" that still might be over the design limits.

I could be wrong, but bar pulling 5.5" dia with a coolant-pressure driven puller, may need the 10xbilltrillion PSI pump upgrade...

[mkd]

10 minutes ago, newbeeee said:

I could be wrong, but bar pulling 5.5" dia with a coolant-pressure driven puller, may need the 10xbilltrillion PSI pump upgrade...

may depend on if you're pulling magnesium or Tungsten.

[Newbeeee™]

33 minutes ago, mkd said:

may depend on if you're pulling magnesium or Tungsten.

or Hot Air!

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ewood42 said:

May end up going with a Fanuc arm if I get my way, I know how to program and run those, and it wouldn't be too hard to set it up to trigger a few different load/unload programs straight off the mill without a PLC. Though I guess to be OSHA compliant I'd need to cage it off and set up a stupid number of interlock switches...

No. No need to cage at all. You can use prox sensors.

[Guest]

On 7/10/2017 at 8:56 AM, Ewood42 said:

The part we are using as a standard for quoting this machine uses 5.5" round stock.

Hate to break it to you, you're not bar feeding that. I've seen 4" brass be bar fed before but that was soooooo pushing the limit. 

Slug it. It's safer, more reliable, and can be easily automated. 

[Ewood42]

49 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

Hate to break it to you, you're not bar feeding that. I've seen 4" brass be bar fed before but that was soooooo pushing the limit. 

Slug it. It's safer, more reliable, and can be easily automated. 

Thanks for the info. I've worked more or less with just mills since I got into programming, so I don't have a lot of exposure to lathes, and this was the first time I've ever shopped around for a machine.

[Ewood42]

55 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

No. No need to cage at all. You can use prox sensors.

Sitting here thinking on it, a cage might be a good idea. People wander by the one automated cell we have all the time and if it was set up with light curtains I would be constantly restarting it.

Management likes to show it off to customers too, and e-stops frequently get bumped. Because the mill has to use a macro to talk to the Fanuc (which is driving the cell, and cannot accept an analog signal) and the way the network is configured, an e-stop cannot be cleared without cycling power on the whole cell... which takes about 7 minutes. Doesn't sound like very long, but it seems like an eternity with the owner watching. I'm sure that could be fixed, but I'm not that good with it... yet.