Edit - simplify - all splines .......... done. As John mentioned, keeping the tolerance around .0002" yields the best results. Carmen

I'm not so sure Ron's suggestion will work. The reason I say this is because I was trying to accomplish this today and couldn't get it to work. I placed a call to In-House Solutions and their tech support helped me out. The way we did it was to open two sessions of the tool manager from the X8 folder and scale the two sessions to fit the screen ( assuming single monitor ) On the left session, open your holders file ( I created one for all the toolholder we use on our Makino's ) and on the right session, open the folder of your tools. We use Mill_ Inch. Now, one by one, drag each holder into the holder section of your tool library. It has to be done one at a time. This process worked like a charm. Now when I choose any toolpath, and then select the holders tab, all of my custom toolholder are right at my fingertips. Carmen

That is pretty simple to answer. We were a long time Makino customer, but our Mikron dealer tried to get their foot in the door. We already had a long relationship with our dealer ( Mikron ) for other machine tools and they basically made us a deal we couldn't turn down. They felt that once we got used to the Mikron, we would like it even better than the Makino's. The Mikron also came with a 42K rpm spindle, whereas our Makino's are 30K rpm. Matsuura didn't have anything well suited to our needs at the time.

Yes, Elliott Matsuura is our dealer. They are a good dealer. Our issues are with Mikron.

As a company, we have probably put 200 spindle hours on the machine in the last year. On the flip-side, Mikron has puts 100's and 100's of hours on it doing diagnosis and testing. We argued that Mikron will use up our entire spindle hour warranty just on testing. The legal route.............. I would hate to think that it would come to that, but I wouldn't rule it out. As stated earlier, we do have a great relationship with our dealer. We have two lathes, two wire EDM's, 3 sinker EDM's, a hole popping EDM and perhaps some other equipment from them. We can complain to them about our issues and have them forward the information to the appropriate Mikron department, but if Mikron ignores the dealer, there is not much we, or the dealer, can do.

Good point newbeeee, In our 72 hour test, the measurements were purely spindle. Why, because the z-axis was never really moving. Essentially, the tool ran in air for a set period of time. Then the tool was measured on the laser and the data point collected. The spindle then return to its original "air cutting position" and continue to run until the next measurement. So basicially, the z-axis ball screw was just used to position the tool for laser measurement. Also, keep in mind that Mikrons use glass scales for positioning. Our issue is 100% related to spindle growth, and Mikrons inability to compensate PROPERLY. The ITC tables are pure conjecture based on what they measured in a lab in Switzerland on the first machine. All future machines are "programmed" to compensate based on the original machines data. We held the dealer accountable and would not make payment on the new Mikron for one year. Mikron worked on this issue "on and off" during that year and saw the same issues we did which were unexplainable. Once we modified our procedure ( read: a complete waste of machine and operators time ) we got results that were CLOSER to where we needed to be. In good faith, we paid for the machine, which in hind sight, may not have been the best business decision. Our dealer really is a good company, and we have enjoyed a 15 year+ relationship and have many, many different brands of their machines on our floor. However, I feel the dealers hands are tied on this one and nothing will happen until Mikron themselves address the issue. Until now, Mikron has just left our dealer hanging. This has been extremely frustration for all parties involved.

Yes sir. We had a US Mikron tech up here for 3 weeks doing back to back to back 72-hour tests, with and without ITC. The results were comparable, both being out. The biggest issue is when all of a sudden, the machine figures it needs to make an adjustment. You don't see a shift of a tenth or two, but much larger amounts, and then shifts back minutes later. We called these "spikes" on the graph that Mikron printed out. It was sampling the machine every 20 seconds. By sampling, I mean we were touching off the tool on the laser and recording the tool length. The machine was just running in air. We started at the lowest rpm and increased the rpm by 500 every hour, until max rpm. ( 42,000 ). We had the tech check to make sure there wasn't some kind of math conversion error in the control, where lets say, the machine was supposed to compensate one micron and instead compensates one tenth. They collected all the data and sent it back to Switzerland, but in keeping with their track record, there is no follow-up. Our problem is easily demonstrated within a matter of minutes, but of course we hear " None of our other customers have complained of issues like this", which we know is BS. We have taked to a few other local companies. What makes us different is that we need to hold tenths, whereas these other companies couldn't really care too much about tolerances, they just require the machining speed that the Mikron offers.

It is a challenge to say the least. Typically it is in the .0008 to .0015 range. As stated earlier, we have modified our procedure to try to make up for the machines short-comings. We have to constantly recalibrate the touch probe, and then re-measure the tools on the laser so that the machine is updated. This is the only approach that brings us even close to what we are trying to accomplish. It wastes a lot of time, but we had no other choice. The programmer/operator of our two Mikron's is stressed to the max.

We are stable the x&y axis, but in the z-axis, we have seen as much as .0025" It is very unpredictable, because the machine makes compensation in the background and you never know how much or when it will "adjust" itself.

MotorCityMinion, I know we are not alone with our issues. We have done several 72 hour tests with Mikron techs to monitor spindle growth and datum shifts. They have tried everything under the sun to try to resolve the issue. Software updates, spindle replacement, etc. We have a temperature controlled shop, and even went to the extra expense of installing an isolated foundation for the machine, although Mikron said it was unnecessary. I'm not sure if you have ever dealt with Marcus Frei on your issues, but he quit Mikron last week due to the frustration of having to deal with Switzerland and they do nothing for the customer. What a huge blow to Mikron and their customers. He knew so much about their product. The biggest issue with the spindle is the fact that they don't use any temperature sensors in the spindle to monitor temperature. Steptec ( spindle manufacturer subsidiary Mikron company ) has told us that the spindle has a sensor, but Mikron refuses to use it. Bostamatic held all the patents on super accurate spindle temperature control, and when they went bust and GF ( Mikron ) acquired the assets, they took some of Bostamtics's technology and applied it to the new generation Mikron's, but decided to try to control the spindle growth via mathematics. Huge mistake in my books. On the new HSM700, we fought with the distributor and Mikron for one year to get it to work as advertised. We were able to modify our procedure to get closer to our tolerance goals, but it is a real headache. Your approach to hard milling is very similar to ours. This machine was a conditional purchase in that they addressed the issues with our HSM500. Unfortunately, they have failed and this machine has not performed as it should since new, which is now just past 3 years. I overheard a very heated conversation between the owner of our company and our distributor which lead me to believe that one or both of these machines could be on the trading block very soon. It is a shame, we love 99 out of 100 things about the Mikrons, but the volumetric accuracy is just not where we need it to be.

I came from the other side of the merger ( Prosin Molds ). We always had good equipment and we are slowly replacing the CNC machines that came from Zdenik's shop. Yes, Mastercam is the only CAM system we use.

First let me prejudice this response with the fact that we started out as a Makino customer and have owned about 10 Makino's of different capabilities over the last 12 years. Currently, we have an S56, V56, F5, F8 and two PS95's. The all have different capabilities and are awesome machines. My personal favourite is the S56, because it is almost 10 years old now, is just as accurate today as the day we got it, is bullet fast, and has never had one single issue. Mikron is new to us in the last 3 years. We started out with an HSM500 and purchased an HSM700 last summer. They are wicked fast machines, however, they are not capable of reliably holding "tenths" which makes up the bulk of our work. They are accurate for short term work, but fail on long run times due to the way that they handle spindle temperature. Mikron uses a technology called ITC which stands for Intelligent Thermal Compensation. In a nutshell, it uses algorithms to theoretically calculate spindle growth/shrinkage based on rpm and time. To cut to the chase.......... it SUCKS !!!!! We have demonstrated this issue to our dealer and to the Mikron tech people that have visited our facility, and as of yet, they have not been able to address this problem. If they can sort it out, the Mikron will be a winner. The Makino's use real time temperature and adjust the chiller accordingly to try to maintain a constant spindle temperature. It is not perfect, but it is very good. If I were spending my own money, it would be on the Makino's. Good machines, service, reliability, and they have a wide selection of machines to choose from. Yes, we have some very nice equipment. We specialize in high production, high precision, caps and closure moulds. Our clientele is global. We have developed some new technology for the molding industry which we will be displaying at the plastics show in Florida in March. We take on a lot of jobs that the "big guys" say are not possible, and find a way to succeed. Our engineering capabilities are very strong. Check out our company here. http://www.capthinmolds.com Carmen

Makino and Mikron are similarly priced for the same specs. We have both on the shop floor. Carmen

Makino would certainly have something that would suit your requirements. If you want all out speed, check out a Mikron. The Makino is fast, but the Mikron is "bat-xxxx crazy" fast. Roughing and finishing feedrates of 500 ipm is a walk in the park. Of course, I am referring to 3 axis toolpaths. As far as controls go, when you get into a high-end machine, the controls are purpose built to handle lots of high-speed code. A Makino has 3 modes ( M-codes ) to control accuracy. Each one is suited to the type of toolpath you are running. M251 is for roughing and allows the machine to run roughly 30% faster than Standard mode which is M250. M252 is the ultra accuracy mode which is roughly 30% slower than standard mode. Keep in mind, the geometry dictates the increase/reduction in cycle times. Please note, all modes are very accurate. Accuracy is handled a little differently on the Mikron with a Heidenhain control. You may also want to check out a Matsuura. Carmen

No problem. That's what were here for. Carmen

You need probing software to do this. Renishaw uses Power inspect ( Delcam ) to drive their probes on free-form surfaces. Carmen

In the front view at "z-zero" draw 1/2 of the cross section of your bowl starting at the origin. Create a vertical line from the origin ( length doesn't matter ). Now go to your isomentric view and select "create/surface/revolved surface". Select the chain that represents 1/2 of the cross section. It will then ask you for the axis of rotation, which you will select the vertical line. Voila. There is your completed surface. Carmen

Please don't compare a Haas to a Makino. The Makino will take whatever you can throw at it. We've got 3 Pro5's on the floor and they have never been starved for data. Carmen

I just had this same issue on a mold core. I sent it in to In-House who then passed it along to CNC Software. Although they did get back to me, I'm not satisfied with the reply. In a nutshell, they basically said what was written above, that the tollbooth tries to maintain constant tool load. I call BS on this. The toolpath is supposed to be controlled by "stopover" as its criteria. We had areas of our part where the stopover was just a tad over double what we programmed for stopover. Yes....... this is BAD for the tool. Seeing as "stopover" is the only control you have for this path, my thinking is that it should have a "minimum" and "maximum" stopover value. It's an awesome toolpath, but certainly has some short-comings in my eyes. Carmen

Your speed and feed seem a little slow, but having said that, it would all depend on the slope angle you are cutting. Ball tools cut like crap at the centre, so in shallow slope angles, poor surface finish, and tool-life will result. Calculate your true SFM based on the contact point of the ball. You will probably find that your actual SFM is very low. One thing I will suggest is adding an Acculube system to your machine. It only costs a few hundred dollars, and your tool-life will increase dramatically. Our company specializes in high precision, high speed machining in hardened steel, and all of our machines are equipped with Acculube systems. Although the oil consumption is only about one litre per year ( yes, that little ), it is completely safe as it is basically vegetable oil and food colouring. Trust me, it works like a charm. The system on the right is the type we use. http://metalworking-lubricants.acculuberustlick.com/viewitems/accu-lube-products/minimum-quantity-lubrication-mql-systems Carmen

You are correct djstedman. Curve/slice only works on round parts, or symmetrical parts where you know where the proper cross section lies. Turn profile gets you close, but that's all. Carmen

Turn profile is garbage, especially if accuracy is required. Create/curve/slice will give you a perfect cross section to turn. Carmen

On a Pro5 control, the main program and the sub-programs must reside in different locations. The main program would be in the control memory, then you would use an M198 call for the sub-program which would be placed on the data server ( hard drive ). Carmen

The Haas high-speed option is a joke. It only has 40 blocks lookahead using a single processor, unlike a higher calibre machine. As many others have pointed out, the machine is the limiting factor. I agree that Mastercam's reported cycle time is off somewhat, but on our Makino's and Mikron's, it is reasonably close. Carmen

What language is this ?????????????