O/T dekel-Maho

[Elad]

I have an opportunity to purchase this machine :

 

 

DECKEL-MAHO MC-800H 5 AXIS HORIZONTAL MACHINING CENTER

1996

 

SPECIFICATIONS:

 

1) TRAVEL:

X - AXIS 800MM

Y - AXIS 600MM

Z - AXIS 600MM

FEEDRATE 1 - 10000 MM/MIN

RAPID TRAVERSE 15000 MM/MIN X/Y AXIS

30000 MM/MIN Z AXIS

2) SPINDLE:

SPINDLE NOSE BT 40

SPINDLE SPEED 12000 RPM

3) TOOLS:

CAPACITY 120 ATC

MAX. TOOL DIAMETER 130 MM / 230 MM

MAX. TOOL LENGTH 400 MM

MAX. TOOL WEIGHT 20 kg

4) SWIVELLING CIRCULAR TABLE

-CLAMPING SURFACE WITH PALLET 500 x 630 MM

-CENTER HOLE DIAMETER 50 MM

-ROTARY MOVEMENT

* MAX. TORQUE AT PALLET 1610 Nm

* TORQUE CLAMPED 5640 Nm

-SWIVELLING MOVEMENT

* MAX. TORQUE 2650 Nm

* TORQUE CLAMPED 4560 Nm

-RAPID TRAVERSE

* ROTARY MOVEMENT 20 RPM

* SWIVELLING MOVEMENT 11.2 RPM

-MAX. TABLE LOAD 500 KG

-WEIGHT WITH PALLET 2800 KG

FLOOR SPACE 4468MM x 4748MM

 

EQUIPPED WITH:

 

HEIDENHEIN 532 CNC CONTROL

MAIN DRIVE 22kW AC

AUTOMATIC TOOL CLAMPING

PRODUCTION PACKAGE WITH COOLANT THRU SPINDLE

CHIP CONVEYOR

HAND HELD CONTROL PANEL

BROKEN TOOL DETECTION

COLOR MONITOR

ROTOCLEAR

NC- SWIVEL TABLE (5 AXIS)

PALLET CHANGER

CHILLER UNIT

RENISHAW TYPE MP8 MEASURING PROBE

KNOLL VACUUM ROTATION FILTER

BALLUFF TOOL ID SYSTEM - READING/WRITING

TRANSFORMER FOR 480V/60Hz

 

 

 

 

 

Your opinion is really important. this machine is not in Israel and i have to decide if i'll fly to check it before buying.

 

The seller claims that the machine worked only 10000 hours (2 years) and he wants for it about 150,000$

 

Is it worth the money?

 

Thanks.

[chip]

I have run Dekels before, It looks like this one has the Heidenhain control. (I would prefer the seimans) Dekel also went out of business (a couple of times) Tech support sucks..... We buried a spindle, they sent one guy, We ended up having to change it.... The list goes on and on. When it was running, I am just as impressed with MY 2004 Haas VF4!

 

My good buddy programs at a shop that has 8 Heitachi-Seiki HG400's they are starting to buy Mazaks Horizontal pallet changers, For that money ABSOLUTLY, look at what else you could buy.

 

I just went to see the Mazak run..... Pretty impressed!

 

[Fig sign]

I waited for somebody to answer before me .

I hate deckel-maho and I run it as a main machine

.

My is much simplier model Dmc63 v but anyway

Spindel -changed ,screen display changed once and needs a next change ,hard drive changed ,

heluvaa bunch of little things and still I have problems everyday

I HATE DECKEL-MAHO !

And I hate my controller and it`s bugs (sinumeric)

 

Teh support in Israel for DMG sucks more than anything else

Elad , if you want details ,you know my telephone number .

[chip]

Ouch!!!!.........

[Quickmike]

The wise owl says don't buy it.

[mold100]

Well I guess that about sums it up, my .02 says I dont like heidies either I am a fanuc man.

[jackn]

Its a Heidenhein controller and your going to end up with problems with Mastercam...unless a single post has been developed for it ...and yeah support is really down the tubes ...we just finally got a technician that works in australia and not have to fly them in from germany ...we had a spindle go on one machine...6 weeks to repair...bearings on another and that took a yr to replace...thank god it was still under warranty.....tool door switch went a month ago....that took 3 weeks to get the right one ..the supplier sent us 2 wrong ones from Bosch before we got the right one flown in from Germany at 3 times the price....so um ...save your airfare ....hunt for something else...and good luck

[Bruce Caulley]

They do have maintenance and support issues which sucks, but the controller is fantastic IMO. A good 5 axis post is now available for heidanhein so don't let that worry you. Sounds like everyone has made your mind up for you.

 

Bruce

[wtsylvester]

mross will probably chime in on this .. they liked them so much they bought 2

 

Post isssues ... Well what i saw at IMTS

MCAM finally in X has a program to create post

like about time !!

[chip]

quote:

---

.....tool door switch went a month ago....that took 3 weeks to get the right one

---

Jackn, the first thing I did was undo the two bolts and left the locking pin in the switch....

Going from MDI to Program (If I remember corectly) I had to pull the pin once and put it back in for the machine to start. I can't stand not being able to look at the part without having to stop the machine.

[Fig sign]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jackn, the first thing I did was undo the two bolts and left the locking pin in the switch....

Going from MDI to Program (If I remember corectly) I had to pull the pin once and put it back in for the machine to start. I can't stand not being able to look at the part without having to stop the machine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am strongly agaist it .

You will end with a tool in your Head (GSYFT) or something similar

With the speed of a toolchange and G0 and all other things it can be really dangerous and I know such cases .

This is a loaded mine !

I never did this or plan to do it .

I am moldmaker but I have a lot of fast safe ways to do my parts without that !

Please ,consider it !!!!

[jeff]

I feel sorry for the people that need a 120 tool atc to run a job!

The most I have needed was about 20 and that sucked!

As for the machine.....I have no experience with Decko-Maho sorry.

[robk]

quote:

---

I feel sorry for the people that need a 120 tool atc to run a job!

The most I have needed was about 20 and that sucked!

---

Jeff, I wish that I could have enough of tools to match the amount of offsets that are in the machine. All of our machines hold 40 tools, with the exception of 1 holding 80. The more the better especially for lights out production with back up tools. I wish that I had a tool changer with 120 tool capacity.

[chip]

quote:

---

I am strongly agaist it .

You will end with a tool in your Head (GSYFT) or something similar

With the speed of a toolchange and G0 and all other things it can be really dangerous and I know such cases .

This is a loaded mine !

I never did this or plan to do it .

I am moldmaker but I have a lot of fast safe ways to do my parts without that !

Please ,consider it !!!!

---

I'm not saying I suggest you run the same set up I had... My point is mearly Dekel has some pretty hosed designs for their locking door an a ton of other safty switches.(complete lockout when the machine is in jog mode unless you hold two safty switches with your hands, two with both feet one with your mouth.) That increases the machine down time waiting for a safty switch! Absolutly those safty switches are there for people who want to stick their hand in between the tool and the spindle when it's changinging a tool...

[Jack Mitchell]

Straight up - yes, this machine tool is worth 150K. In Canada it would probably go new for about 400K and used about 230K.

 

Placing Heidenhain and Mastercam aside for the moment - fly there and run your bare hands across all ball screws (This tells the real story of crashes and other undesirable things).

Be wary of a horizontal for the finicky things like limit switches and rotary/interchangeable beds - personally, I would'nt touch this machine tool (I have experience of six different Deckels - Dialog controls only, and one Maho) rigidty is not their strongest suit and neither is high production - If you have a need for a touchy machine tool that does amazing five axis work then perhaps this machine will work out for you, otherwise take a pass, for the maintenance costs alone could well break your back in a few months time.

 

In all fairness I am sure they make a fine machine tool; but if so then why is this one for sale?

Deckel is famed more so for complexity vs rigidity. Their claim to fame does not include productivity or aggressive machining in MHO.

 

 

Hope it helps, Regards, Jack

[Elad]

will buy bicycle instead.

I tought i found a great deal.

[horry]

hi there

 

just wanna add, that I ran a dmu 125p for about 3 years and had absolut no problems with it.

[Fig sign]

~~~~~~~~~

In all fairness I am sure they make a fine machine tool; but if so then why is this one for sale?

Deckel is famed more so for complexity vs rigidity. Their claim to fame does not include productivity or aggressive machining in MHO.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

+1000 ,IT DEPENDS OF A WORK you are doing .

I know some places they are happy with DMc verticals like mine but it is not a machine for molds and I am doing them all the time .

No wonder it kills it ,it simply not build for it .

Also it is bad designed and and made ,they changed us every big and little thing to immagine (locks ,g0 and G1 resistors ,display ,harddisk ,spindel bearings ,ATc parts ,valves and so on ).

3 times germans came to Israel to set and repair my machine in the first year .

OS bugs were never corrected .

I would go for my sort of work with something more rigid ,better designed and made .

Having such nice experience with a banal simple vertical I can imagine what can lay hidden inside such a machine like this .

Ps my former place they bought HSM Deckel_maho vertical with heidenhein and have some very unpleasant mechanical problems .

They were never solved by DMG !

[Henk]

We run 2 Deckels VW70 with heidenhain control.

No problems between mastercam and the control.

I've got a good post from my reseller, and he also changed all my points.

After posting the NC-file can direct run, no manual edit or changes.

V70 is a vertical mill, so no 5-axes work.

The post is not ISO but Heidenhain-conv.