Reverse Engineering

[Todd Mann from Fastech]

Ok everyone I need some help and need it fast. Our company is looking into a CMM to Reverse Engineering and inspect parts. We preform c-checks on DC-9 DC-8 and B767 aircraft. We need to be able to Reverse Engineering parts that are not avalable and have limited drawing info. This is something that the people in our machine shop has pushed for for years. My question to you is. What type of equipment do you find is the best for this and what is the best software to take that data and create a solid model with the least amount of work? We want fast and easy.

[Matthew]

I have had a couple things reverse engineered by CMM in the past. It is great for simple 2D parts, such as a tool change arm for a CNC machine. I've also tried to reverse engineer a control arm from a car using this method. After getting pretty crappy point data from the guys with the CMM (outsourced) I spent ours trying to extrude the arm and eventually got a close representation (close enough for what we were doing). While I was working on this I inquired about other methods and one that was pointed out to me was 3D laser scanning. The guy I was talking to said in the time a CMM could get a couple of points, this laser scan could produce millions of points. Accurate to .005". He said they would use a software called Polyworks to create nurbs surfaces from the points. Here is their website for more information.

 

http://www.sammertech.com

 

Keep in mind I have never used this service, it just came up while I was inquiring about options, so I cannot comment on how well the data came in, or how usable it was. Just something to look into.

[Ocean Lacky™]

We use a Faro Laser Line Probe to capture data for forging dies, and Geomagic Studio to convert the point data to surface models which we import and machine in MasterCam. The scanner is accurate to around .003". the software is a bit tricky to learn, but like anything else, gets easier the more you use it.

[Bob Hedrick]

Is anyone using software that creates engineering features (ex. extruded, revolved, lofted, swept solids, holes, pockets, etc.) rather than a patchwork of surfaces from the point cloud data? If so, what is it?

 

Thanks.

[Zero]

Ive been trying to convince the boss to get one of these. looks and sounds almost too good to be true...

[MACHINEMASTERG]

wow that does look almost too good to be true at that price and plugs into solidworks ...

[Craig Madsen from CM3D]

Whether it is too good to be true or not depends on the size parts you want to scan, and the resolution you can tolerate.

 

Small parts, roughly 5.1x3.8" (max)

or 13.5x10.1"

 

Accuracy of +/-.005 OR +/-0.015" - that is .01 to .03" accuracy.

 

If it were better, it would cost a LOT more, though. Still, I would like to have one if I could find more than a one time use for it.

[Greg VN]

I talked to the Dan at Next ENgine about that scanner. You can make mulyiple scanes and patch them together for larger projects. I have had projects where that could do the job. I just finnnished running 5 different shaped carvings in walnut that were scanned at a shop that cuts stone. The software that they had was limited in its capabilities. They couild not use boundarys to control the areas that the cutter machined. It had to just go over the entire part like a scallop toolpath. Doing a contuor toolpath was not an easy accomplishent from what the programer was telling me he had to trace around the edges of the part to create toolpaths. It was somewhat inconvienent to do any tweaking on the programs since I had to wait for the programer at that shop to work it in.

 

I had a part scanned a few years ago that was small enough to be done by that scanner. The cost of that service was $2000. Next time esomething comes up like that I would definatly consider that machine.

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

there is a scanner from a company in snoqualmie washington called metron systems I think it is the most accurate one available.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I've done some reverse engineering in the past with a Faro arm. The nice thing about doing it that way is that you can set it up with a foot pedal so that it will input X#Y#Z#, as if it were through the keyboard, every time you hit the pedal. That way you can be in Mastercam doing a 3D sketch, and create points, lines, arcs, and splines using the arm as if it were a mouse in 3D space. For example, you can go into create arc by 3 points, and then touch the probe at 3 points on the part, clicking with your foot as you go. This will result in a cleaner, more useful model, probably in less time and with less expense than doing a full 3D scan and getting a point cloud that requires interpretation.

[terry5357]

We use the crap out of our Faro arm on tripod.

man you can get a point cloud or geometry on anything from a helicopter main rotor blade or the side of a truck. works great we use Ideas for design as well as SolidWorks.

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

Have you looked at Verisurf with a Laser it uses Mastercam so very little learning.

[Müřlıń®]

If you don't care about modifying your model, then laserscan it. It is fast and there are plenty of companies around competing.

 

There is a machine here by our shop that can laser scan a truck it is so big.

 

If you need to have full control over the dimensional aspects of your model, you need to build it with the current tools used in Cad, IE coons, ruled, revolved ect.

 

This can either be done by taking a laser scanned model and slicing and dicing, or by building it from scratch with a digitizing arm.

A digitizing arm can generate a point cloud somewhat like a laser can. Just not as fast.

 

I work with laser scanned models that are done for the rockbit industry since all that old tooling was made with wood patterns and hand laid up fiberglass models.

 

Same app where the prints are either missing or very little info is available and there is just either a pattern or a part to be scanned.

[Steve Hattori]

+1 on the Verisurf- we have it here with a Romer arm, and it will run with a laser scanner as well. Runs in Mastercam, makes it easy to get a good model.

[Kevangel]

I had seen Milltronics offer didgitizing for their cnc machines to reverse enginneer, was around $4-6K I think. Don't know who makes it.(probably see it on Milltronics web page). Think it said could export as a DXF file.

[Todd Mann from Fastech]

Thanks for all your comments I am sure we are going with a Faro arm and the verisurf software. I tought everyone was on board with it and they was going to make a dicision last week but i don't think that happened. So here we go agian don't hold your breath.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Look at the Romer arm too. It is cheaper than the Faro and just as good...