Fadal's Format1 vs Format2

[FLIPPER™]

Fadal's Format1 vs Format2:

Anyone have an opinion as to why one should be used over the other in the shop?

 

Advantages?

 

Dis-advantages?

 

Your Opinion is needed.

 

Thank you in advance.

[Colin Gilchrist]

What does your Fadal manual say about the differences?

 

The last time I had to run a Fadal was in College and I believe we picked format #2 because of the rigid tapping. I think format 2 had some more work offsets as well...

 

Your Fadal manual should explain the differences.

 

HTH,

[Guest]

JPL/NASA

 

 

Fadal?????

 

 

:groan:

 

 

Format 1 is what I have always used. cannot speak to Format 2 at all

[Colin Gilchrist]

Woah,

 

I actually beat John...

 

Seriously, I must have hit the submit button about a second before you John.

 

[Guest]

That's OK, I spied the topic earlier and didn't have a minute to type my meager response

 

[rickt23]

I have used both format 1 and format 2, I prefer format 2. We always refered to format 2 as fanuc mode because we were able to run the same program on the fadal as our machines with fanuc controls. There is a big differance in the way the tapping cycles are set-up.Also in format 1 it didn't allow us to use a Z fixture offset properly, if it was over 4 inches the machine would over travel, because it would read the fixture offset before the tool offset. There was a lot of other weird things that it did also.

[FLIPPER™]

Yes the basic thing is a fanuc emulator mode with Format2. I like the format "E1-E10" workoffsets instead of only 6 "G54-59".

[rickt23]

The good thing is that you can use E1 work offsets in both format 1 and 2.

[Thad]

quote:

---

I like the format "E1-E10" workoffsets instead of only 6 "G54-59".

---

You have 48 fixture offsets, IIRC.

 

We only use Format 1.

 

EDIT: Make that 36 offsets.

 

Thad

[Zoober]

Format 1 was the original (and only) format in the beginning, developed by Adrian deCaussin (the A in FADAL) Hence "1"

Format 2 was added when Fadal went to the 1400 style system boards to add Fanuc compatability.

Format 2 does some of the following:

 

No move to home when starting or ending a program Format 1 ALWAYS goes home.

Fanuc style tapping cycles vs format 1- Q=lead, F=RPM.

 

G54 style offsets.

 

HTH

[Colin Gilchrist]

Go with Format 2. I believe that CNC Software actually released a Format 1 and a Format 2 Machine/Control/Post combo that is ready to go right out of the box. No post changes, just set the switches for your personal perference and go.

 

HTH,

[FLIPPER™]

Very cool everyone. Thanks for the input. It really helps.

[Bryan Johnson]

FORMAT 2

(2 good reasons)

 

1. The way Z values are read from the fixture offsets.

 

2. Machine does not move back to "Cold Start" position when it reads a M30 (what a PITA).

 

3. I know of no advantage to running in Format 1

[Bryan Johnson]

This question comes up a lot with my customers. If anyone out there can list any advantages to the format 1, I would like to hear them.

 

 

15000 posts, here I come.

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

2. Machine does not move back to "Cold Start" position when it reads a M30 (what a PITA).

---

Brian make the botton of your code look like this :

 

G91G28Z0;

G0G90Y10.;

MOO;

M99P2;

 

Instead of an M30, it just jumps back to the top and starts over.

 

 

PEACE

[Guest]

quote:

---

3. I know of no advantage to running in Format 1

---

Me neither but then again I can not think of any advantage to running a Fadal either.

 

[billystein]

the only time i have used format 2 is for probing. for example.

when probing a tooling ball I set up the macro to start with the probe 1 " over the ball. format allowed the machine to start probing without taking off for machine zero at the beginning of the program.

[billystein]

"Me neither but then again I can not think of any advantage to running a Fadal either."

 

because if you can't make money with a fadal you can't work for me.

but anyone that can post over 10000 threads, probably on the clock isn't going to work for me anyway.

 

billy

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

but anyone that can post over 10000 threads, probably on the clock isn't going to work for me anyway.

---

[Guest]

quote:

---

because if you can't make money with a fadal you can't work for me.

but anyone that can post over 10000 threads, probably on the clock isn't going to work for me anyway.

---

That's OK because with an attitude like that you'd never get me to agree to work for you to begin with. I stopped working for egotistically over the top people yrs ago.

 

There's always trouble trying to fit 2 ego's the size of mine in the same building, nevermind the same shop.

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

John said...

quote:

---

...I can not think of any advantage to running a Fadal either...

---

Billy fires back...

quote:

---

... because if you can't make money with a fadal you can't work for me.

but anyone that can post over 10000 threads, probably on the clock isn't going to work for me anyway...

---

John retorted...

quote:

---

...That's OK because with an attitude like that you'd never get me to agree to work for you to begin with. I stopped working for egotistically over the top people yrs ago...

---

 

:smack:

 

 

Personally FATAL, errrr FADAL is not my favorite either. IF I were in the market for that class of machine, HAAS would have to get the vote.

 

But back to the matter at hand, Format 2 or Fanuc Style is a better option, more in line with the majority of machine formats out there. Standards are a good thing often times. JM2C

[phil darcy]

speaking of fadal format 2 can any one tell me when the e offset is applied and does it need to be on a line with what else.

 

The reason I ask I was trying to use a g51.1 x0 to mirror a drill tool path but Z stopped way above part, take out g51.1 x0 and tool path is fine.I couldn't quite figure this out

 

in format 1 you know when E offset is applied soon as it reads that line away it goes.

 

also in format 1 you can input e offset and h offset and then jog to check Z depths before running and I would like to be able to do this but I'm missing somthing.

 

I have read manual any advice.

 

Phil/DRS

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

For anyone interested try this link:

 

http://www.compumachine.com/Support/Downlo...60__Formats.pdf

 

 

As far as Fadals are concerned I can see where John is coming from. We have four Makinos and a Fadal. The majority of my frustration in the shop comes when I am working on the Fadal, but having said that we still make plenty of good parts with the Fadal. The main thing that gets me is that when using the Fadal I end up wasting a lot of time trying to solve all the wierd problems that only seem to happen on that machine. I still have never met a CNC mill that I didn't like.

 

Justin

[billystein]

"I stopped working for egotistically over the top people yrs ago."

 

first let me say thanks for getting rid of the pic of hilary. it was very disturbing to look at.

I would love to be more active on the forum but time prevents me from being more than a daily reader, so i guess i'm a little jealous.

finaly, i don't it an ego trip. I think it is more out of desperation. at age 50 i realize that jobs are still readily available most of the time but i want need the control to determine when to retire. so i bought a used fadal.

i don't want to end up like a freind of mine who was a top manual machinist but got very ill at age 55. the company we were at let him go after 12 years and I heard it took a year before he could collect his disability.

finally I couldn't afford to hire you anyway but maybe soon.

 

peace john

 

billy

I

[Guest]

Billy