What is a programmer?

[loraxian]

How would you define a programmer? I'm talking about in the machine tool business. Is it somebody who can generate tool path using Mastercam or some other CAD tool or does it go beyond that?

 

If I ask management of shop X in Cheboygan and shop Y in South Bend what a programmer is am I going to get a similar response or is it likely to be vastly different depending on their perspective?

 

What path did you take to becoming a programmer? Did you work your way up through the machine tool industry, have formal academic schooling, some combination there of?

 

People in academia don't really understand the field and frankly I'm not sure I do either.

Thanks

[JayMan]

IMOHO, You must be a machinist FIRST

[BrianP.]

Part machinist, toolmaker, engineer, draftsman, repair technician, inspector, and anything else you can think of to get the job done. It is a position of responsibility and depending on the company size and structure your duties can vary greatly. Underpaid, unappreciated, overworked .

[robh]

+1000 BrianP. especially like the "underpaid,unappreciated,overworked"

[Hardmill]

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IMOHO, You must be a machinist FIRST

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Underpaid, unappreciated, overworked .

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Sorry gotta disagree here.

One only has to go out and get what they want.

 

 

PEACE

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

There was a topic like this a few years ago I did a search and could not find it. I thought it was a great list of all we do and are responsible for.

[JayMan]

without knowing how to machine, I find it difficult that anyone could become a good programmer, I've seen people who went to programming school first try to use a 6" long 1/16" ball end mill, I would even go as far as to say that even an enginner should have been a machinist first, I 've see designed parts that are impossible to make.

[Guest]

What is a programmer?

 

That really depends on who is asking and defining the term.

 

I have seen programmers that only program for themselves and never get anything beyond that role.

 

I have seen programmers who Engineer the entire process from rough stock to final part and everything in between.

 

I have been a programmer, where I ordered stock, designed and ordered tooling and custom, designed fixtures, did all of the CNC Programming and more.

 

So one person's programmer is yet someone else's Manufacturing Engineer is yet a programmer operator to another.

[kwolf]

Being a modeler (surface/solid) helps alot too. I mean understanding 3d geometries and how to create them sometimes helps to choose better strategies in machining especially when

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IMOHO, You must be a machinist FIRST

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[mchin-pilot]

Programmer is one who drives the machine tool ( not operates!)

CNC machines are not to be operated, they are made to be driven.

 

It is obvious that one who has operated manual machine tools and has had experience in cutting/milling/turning/grinding metal etc would be driving them thru computers.

 

Not 100% Necessarily these days only machinists could be programmers. Because of high end CAD/CAM and Design happening before manufacturing, The Designers/Enginers are also programmers and no doubt they have better command on the CAD and Product side.

 

Some have passion to drive cars,some to fly plane, some sail ship. Some have passion/art to draw/sketch and design. And the ones who have passion to Drive Machine Tools and cut metal with metal are the "Programmers". Does'nt matters whether u r underpaid,unappreciated,overworked. What all matters is creativity/concept/design/attitude and devotion in your field.

[Goldorak]

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IMOHO, You must be a machinist FIRST

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and if you got some experience on conventional machine is a big +

 

 

and x2 to BrianP.

 

and you can add welder, foreman, salesman and setup man to the list, some times here it's really like a zoo and the programmer (me) is the one who got to get the job done in time ..........

[loraxian]

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Good question, did you read through this Thread from a few days ago?, somebody asked, how long to program this part, the replies should give you insight into how various forum members view the process

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I lurk on this board pretty often and you see a lot of questions/responses that are wide ranging. Sometimes it's a question about machining a particular kind of material other times it's a question about complex geometry or modifing post procesessors, etc, etc.

It got me to wondering; what kind of background do these people have? Have they come from the IT world or the machine shop or engineering or what?

I teach at a community college and I would like to be able to say something informed about the field when students or administrators ask. I thought I knew what I was talking about but the more I read various threads on this forum (and others) the more I think that I really don't know what a programmer is.

[connormac]

I my opinion you are not a machinist unless you can operate a manual lathe and mill. You need to understand what actually happens when you climb cut vs. conventional cut. You learn why the cutter is making the sound it is making. All of this relates to how you will program a part. Everything works on the computer. JM2C.

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

I think a programmer is someone who loves the manufacturing world.

 

I came from the ground up my father had a shop that I started working at when I was 14 just deburr and stuff I have grown to love it and the technology that comes with it.

 

I beleive that you should be required to have a machining background period for both programming and engineering there is no replacement for experience! you learn from mistakes and achievments both.

 

Programmers usually have to manage people, material, models good or bad and be able to rebuild them. Machine tool setup and use, understanding processes, tool deisign, tool managment, current use of holders and cutters.

There are just to many things to list, yes you can go to school and learn how to put tool path to geometry but that is a very small part of what I think we do.

[Greg VN]

The same answer applies to architects and engineers. The really good ones are the guys that have started somewhere doing the basic stuff over a broader range. They absorbed knowledge, experience, and than moved on into "driving".

The difficult ones to deal with only know what was learned from a classroom with little hands on experience.

[Steve Hattori]

As a shop owner, I agree that you should have experience making parts from prints by hand before you become a "programmer". There are so many situations in machining a part that benefit from having painted yourself into a corner...not to mention the sound and feel of a working cut. I have had people working for me who had little experience on manual machines who did as mentioned- a 1/16" cutter hanging out 6 inches, and said "it looked good on the computer...". There is a lot to said for the practical knowledge that comes from manual experience applied to CNC machining and programming..

[Rob @ Target Machine]

IMHO - A programmer should be able to:

 

1)Generate safe, error-free code for any machine in the shop with a respectable cycle time.

 

2)Modify existing NC programs for rev changes/setup changes and solve machining problems on the shop floor.

 

3)Input ideas for better throughput, tool life, machining strategy, or anything else that will make money for the shop.

 

4)Set-up the job and run it himself if need be.

 

I may be asking for a lot, but our customers are too.

[JPensack Acker Drill]

I think that a programmer needs to be ambitious, hard working, and mostly open minded. This forum is also vital. I worked as a machinist through high school, a cnc operator and programmer at the machine through college while I was going for a bachelors is Manufacturing Engineering and I still have a ton to learn. I do the scheduling where I work which is vital because with out proper workflow a good program doesn't mean anything when you are running 10 - 20 lot sizes and need quick set-ups which means a different program everytime, to account for tooling especially in lathes. Also I have worked with some amazing machinists and gcode programmers, but unwillingness to change or be open minded to new tooling and methods has held them back tremendously. Most importantly is this forum, because without this a 2-3 hour part could easily become a day or twos work just trying to figure out how to do something.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

There are two types of people responsible for the daily workings of CNC's;

1) Those who ask their CNC's to perform tasks

2) Those who TELL their CNC's to perform tasks, how to get there and make them look forward to the trip like it or not.

 

A Programmer is second option.

[MultiAxGod]

A "programmer" generates "G-code" that makes a CNC function.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Where I work programmers do the following:

 

-Make programs for the CNC machines that produce quality parts in an efficient manner

-Setup and run first piece on all new parts

-Determine stock size

-Determine what machine to run the job on

-Design fixtures and work holding

-Make setup sheets and tool lists and keep the setup information organized in a way that is easy to retrieve for future use on repeat jobs.

-Save and backup NC programs and MCX. files

-Order tooling

-Inspect parts (we also have inspectors)

-Explain jobs to operators

-Fix problems for operators

-Fix machines or have machines serviced when they break down

 

I'm sure there is a lot more just can't think of it right now.

 

From my experience programmers have different roles at different places. To me it is best to know as much as you can about the machining industry as possible because you never know what you may be called on to do once you take a job as a "Programmer".

[loraxian]

I think it's interesting that I'm seeing a lot of emphasis on a strong manual machining background being vital and (to generalize) project planning/managing knowledge and skills.

[Mike-T]

Until you've felt tool pressure, you shouldn't be allowed to run an cnc. Until you've stood there with your knees knocking after your machine has crashed, you shouldn't be a programmer.

[JNO]

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I have seen programmers that only program for themselves and never get anything beyond that role.

 

I have seen programmers who Engineer the entire process from rough stock to final part and everything in between.

 

I have been a programmer, where I ordered stock, designed and ordered tooling and custom, designed fixtures, did all of the CNC Programming and more.

 

So one person's programmer is yet someone else's Manufacturing Engineer is yet a programmer operator to another.

 

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I think JP nailed it. The difference between those responsibilities is $$pay$$

 

 

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Until you've stood there with your knees knocking after your machine has crashed, you shouldn't be a programmer.

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Really, what does that feel like???

[Santa Fe]

All of the above plus quoting the new jobs and do the up front research of processes.

 

You don't have to be a machinist to be a programmer but it really makes things easier for the setup man when you send out programs with machining practices applied.

 

I have work with programmers that have never used a machine in their lifes nor a CNC nor a manual mill or lathe and for them making a program is like playing a video game. No common sense applied, no machining practices, they can't differenciate between cutters or tool geometries, feeds and speeds don't even ask them because their answer is "the software fills that out" WHAT!

 

So to me being a programmer is more that using a computer to generate code.