WCS Positioning and rotating

[Dave.L]

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to me... Views are a subset of the wcs..

not the other way around...

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I don't see a "WCS" manager, I see a "View Manager". With that said, I see no other place to assign workoffsets based on WCS other than within views and the view manager.

 

If I am missing it, please help me find it.

[Mike-T]

Wcs represents a part at start orientation(so to speak), Views are used from that position to generate rotations and or work-offsets.

[3R!< W3NG3R]

View manager manages WCS. WCS is 'workpiece co-ordinate system'. You cannot change these. Even the ones you created. It is also unnecessary if you ask me. Just create new views and use them. It is not a time waster, in fact it is a great time saver for me.

 

The one thing you can do is move the origin in any WCS. You can set the X,Y, and Z value or select the arrow and choose a point. If you have associated geom selected, then it will work like Leigh said when you move the geom around.

[Mike-T]

"I don't understand what you mean. Do you have multiple WCS per each part?"

More precisely, I would have a different WCS for each operation of a part.

[Code_Breaker]

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More precisely, I would have a different WCS for each operation of a part.

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Exactly, for example, OP-1 is in vise on a 3-axis machine, and OP-2 is on a horizontal tombstone ...

 

and if there is a rotation on the tombstone, say 90 turn to drill some holes, I will create and WCS to use as a T/C plane, while keeping the TOP WCS from OP-2.

 

Also, if you must, you can make "relative planes" to your original WCS ...

 

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View manager manages WCS.

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Maybe if should be renamed?

 

Gotta go home ... any more questions, I will answer in morning ...

[Dan@home]

The WCS is the top of your part (Always!!!!) pointing to the top of your machine. A machining op (say op 1) consists of ONE WCS and as many views as you need, providing your rotary allows it. These (views) give you your rotation moves.

 

Changing your WCS is like taking the part out of its' fixture and repositioning it to another one (changing the top of your part). There fore a new machinning group (as I do) and a new machinning operation, (say op2). With new named views ext.

[Dave.L]

I think everyone is saying the same thing in a different way, or way they understand it.

 

WCS = Work Coordinate System, the XYZ axis of the work you are going to preform (my understanding, not the text book definition).

 

So, to process multiple sides of a part we use different WCS for each operation of the part like Mike T stated. (Dan stated this as well in other words) And ofcoarse, the WCS represents the workoffset as well.

 

 

So, I understand the use of the WCS, I just don't understand why it cannot be manipulated, since it should be able. You can move it, but you can't rotate it without a "new view"

 

The ability to "rotate the WCS" within a view should exsist, but it does not apparaently and that's all I was looking to understand.

 

Thank you all

[GI George]

That is just how Mastercam does it. I know Powermill does it the way you are wanting to just move/rotate the wcs. I had to get used to it at first but now that is all I know. Does it really matter wether you make wcs or views?

[Dave.L]

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Does it really matter wether you make wcs or views?

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Not the point. I want to rotate the WCS in the current view without creating a new view and then having to delete my original and rename the new.

 

It's waste of time.

[neurosis]

Dave,

 

I agree with you. If your view is a non standard view then you have to do exactly as you say as far as I can tell. Let it create a new view and delete the old one.

 

I moved to mastercam from cimatron. You were able to move and rotate ucs's without having to create new ones, so it is a little annoying to me too, but as with all of the other mastercam quirks, you just get used to them and learn to live with them. Hopefully the good points of the system can help you forget about the quirks.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

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but you can't rotate it without a "new view"

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Call my method a workaround if you like, but it allows me to rotate ANY coordinate system I have. I do exactly what you say I can't, every single day. I think my most complex part had around 20 coordinate systems, and manipulating them was simple (and required).

[Programinator]

Im with Dave on this one. I always thought making a new view and then deleting the old one then going to all your toolpaths and having to change them as well to the new created veiw is a huge waste of time. All this just because you decided to change where you want your zero to be on the part or how your are fixturing it.

[gcode]

If you want your WCS's to be associative

build them like this..

Draw 2 lines at right angles representing the X and Y axis of your WCS.

Use the command "Planes by Geometry"

Select the X line, then the Y and accept it.

The resulting Plane is associative to those 2 lines.

If you move or translate them the Plane goes with them.

If you use this plane as a WCS, all operations using that WCS are associative to those 2 lines.

Move them and all your toolpaths go with them.

 

If you have mass edit toolplanes or WCS on a bunch of operations, its very easy.

In the OPs manager use the Select command

choose Views and select the old view..

All operations using that view will be

highlighted.

Now use the edit common parameter command and change the toolplane to the new one.

You can do a hundred operations in a minute

with this technique.

Doing stuff like this in V9 was asking for trouble but it works very well in X versions.

[Code_Breaker]

Good Morning ... I am back ...

 

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I want to rotate the WCS in the current view without creating a new view and then having to delete my original and rename the new.

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I do EXACTLY what you are asking ... I rotate my WCS WITHOUT creating a new view and I DON'T delete the original and I DON'T rename the new, because there ISN'T ANY NEW VIEWS.

 

gcode +1000

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You can do a hundred operations in a minute with this technique.

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... You alway says it to eloquently ...

 

Dan +1000

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Changing your WCS is like taking the part out of its' fixture and repositioning it to another one

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... I make a New Machine Group also as posted above ... it keep your files organize and easy for the next person to pick up where you left off without hours of wasted time trying to figure it all out ...

 

Leigh +1000

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I think my most complex part had around 20 coordinate systems, and manipulating them was simple (and required).

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Wow ... I thought I was bad with 9 or 10 ... way to go ...

[Dave.L]

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I rotate my WCS WITHOUT creating a new view and I DON'T delete the original and I DON'T rename the new, because there ISN'T ANY NEW VIEWS.

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OK code breaker, what icon, menu item are you selecting to rotate WCS? If you are rotating geometry linked to the WCS, that's not the same thing as I am asking.

[Code_Breaker]

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I am self taught with this and therefore I may really be missing the boat.

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If you are rotating geometry linked to the WCS, that's not the same thing as I am asking.

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Then it is time to quit asking ... enough has been said ... there is no more help for you on this subject ...

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

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If you are rotating geometry linked to the WCS, that's not the same thing as I am asking.

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That's exactly the same as what you are asking. 4 or 5 people in this thread are doing exactly that, and it works excellently. If you can't be bothered to create 2 or 3 lines before you create any new coordinate system, then I don't know what to say.

[Dave.L]

Rotating geo is NOT the same as rotating the WCS. If you can't see that now you will never.

 

What I asked is, can the WCS be rotated without a new view creation?

 

While I appreciate the input and help, code_breaker and Leigh, you presented work arounds and not the true answer to the question which is NO, it cannot.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

Ok. I will sit here and rotate my WCS all day long, even though you say I can not. Sorry I couldn't help.

[Dave.L]

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Ok. I will sit here and rotate my WCS all day long, even though you say I can not. Sorry I couldn't help.

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Answer me this, can you rotate your WCS WITHOUT rotating geometry and NOT creating a new view?Answer that question, not another that you are reading into....

[3R!< W3NG3R]

I think the answer is yes you can do it. You just cannot do it the way you would like to.

 

It can be frustrating to use new software when you are used to something else. But this is how MC does it and it works really well. If you would like, send the enhancement request in to QC. Maybe something will come out of it.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

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Answer me this, can you rotate your WCS WITHOUT rotating geometry and NOT creating a new view?

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Without rotating geometry, no. Why drawing 2 lines is such a road block for you, I'm not sure. In the amount of time you spent in this thread, you could have rotated a hundred WCS's

[Dave.L]

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Without rotating geometry, no. Why drawing 2 lines is such a road block for you, I'm not sure. In the amount of time you spent in this thread, you could have rotated a hundred WCS's

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Thank you for finally answering my original question, and you are correct, in the time to get that answer I could have done a lot.

[kunfuzed]

I guess I don't understand what your issue is. It's like you want Mastercam to do less with one click instead of more. It's like it does what you want, rotates the wcs, but also automatically updates the view to this new view and leaves the old one, which you feel you have to delete for some reason?

 

We all are entitled to an opinion though. For me I wish MC used WCS in Lathe more like Mill. To me that seems like something actually worth complaining about.

[3R!< W3NG3R]

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Thank you for finally answering my original question,

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I guess you were ignoring me, because that is what I said all along.