I'm ready to tackle G-View, WCS if someone will help...

[Reko]

Okay, forgive my ignorance and likely, the wrong use of terminology, but I want to learn an aspect of Mastercam that I have been ignoring for a long time.

 

Normally, when I tackle a surfacing project I orient the part to the position it will be sitting on my machine tool. I really never mess with different WCS but I want to understand it if it will make it easier to program.

 

Here is a sample file that will help explain my ignorance.

 

C:MCAMX4MCXSAMPLESMILLSAMPLESINCHSURFACE TOOLPATHSHIGH SPEED CONTOUR-FINISH.MCX

 

I'm hoping someone can show me how this was programmed in this orientation.

 

If I open the sample file and look at the axis indicator (red,green,blue x,y,z in the bottom left corner) it has the "Z" axis pointing down, yet the program appears to be made from the top of the G-View.

 

How does this happen?

 

When I add a toolpath, it writes it from the bottom... the way I would expect it to.

 

Second Question... if I wanted to orient the part correctly, I would set the part to the front view and rotate it 180 degrees. Is this the easiest way or can I program it without this step.

 

Thanks in advance for anyones help here.

[Dave.L]

Reko,

 

WCS has to be the must confusing feature in MC. I have over 20 years experience with multiple CAD systems and MC's WCS is pretty strange.

 

This is not an easy topic to explain thru a post message. I have yet to try it, but the eapprentice.net site advertized here have a training video on WCS and I have to say the price for what they offer is a smokin deal. I have no association with the site. I do plan to use it down the road.

 

Another option would be to ask your reseller to do a brief net view session with you since it looks as you have current maintenance

 

HTH.

[Reko]

Thanks Dave. It's not that I'm against spending the money, it's more that I don't feel like I'm very far away from getting this concept. I feel like I just need a few tips on making things work like I want them to.

 

I understand that I'm looking at the G-View and that I need to change the T-Plane, but when I click on "Plane" at the bottom of my screen and select "bottom" the T-Plane does not change so... more specifically, how do I change the T-Plane to make the tool machine the G-View's top surface?

[BernieT]

On CadCam's FTP site in the 'unspecified_uploads' folder are several WCS tutotials. Look for 'WCS_tutorial....'

They are from 2004 and ver 9.1 but they may be helpful.

 

Good luck

[cobra95kev]

Reko,

Go down to planes at the bottom of the status bar and then click on view manager, in there is where you can set your WCS and Construction and Tool planes. The whole problem I have with it is the label it "view" manager and not WCS manager. To me view especially Gview should just be the orientation of your graphics screen and have nothing to do with your coordinate system for machining the part, that all comes from what WCS you are in.

 

Try putting your WCS to top in the view manager then putting your T/C planes to front the perform an operation on the fron of your model and that should get you the right oreintation for your tool as well as a "B0" output from your post.

 

Best I can do over a message board. Just go in to the view manager and hit the question mark in the bottom corner of the screen, it will show you how to change stuff in the view manager.

[Reko]

Thanks Bernie. I'll check them out.

 

I may have found my problem though. In the sample file I've been playing with, the WCS is set to the opposite side of the part that I am machining. That means when I have the bottom side up (I am machining the bottom) the axis indicator in the bottom left corner of the screen is pointing down.

 

So, when I tried to change the T-Plane I kept selecting "Bottom" because it is the actual bottom side I am trying to machine, Right?

 

Well, I tried selecting "Top" just for the heck of it and it worked.

 

So, am I to assume that when I set the T-Plane, I am supposed to choose the view that is actually in the orientation of the G-Plane?

 

It seems counter-intuitive to me, but it worked that way.

[iowajim62]

At the top of the page you see "cadcams ftp site", under Tools_&_post_files_&_misc folder is a file called WCS_ViewMgr.zip another is the WCS Video folder in there is a .pdf

 

Think of a part for an airplane out on the wing. Now imagine a Master 0,0,0 for the whole plane being somewhere in the middle of the plane from top to bottom, from the front to the back and from side to side. Now that part out on the wing has a position in relation to that master 0,0,0 back in the middle of the plane. That part could be upside down on the wing and have it's own 0,0,0 separate from the master 0,0,0. Now using WCS in Mastercam you could set a 0,0,0 on that upside down part as you were going to hold it in the machine to cut. This saves you translating/transforming the part geo in MC and the possible errors associated with that. Just one scenario for you to consider. It makes it easier to "see" what WCS could be used for.

HTH

[Reko]

Yes Cobra, thanks. I think that has been my problem. When selecting the T-Plane, which is the direction the tool approaches the work, I needed to look at the G-View, NOT the WCS view.

 

I think I get it now.

[Reko]

Yes Jim, THAT is why I want to understand this concept. In the past, when I had to machine several sides of parts I would (now don't laugh at me) make a different file for every side and rotate or translate the part according to how I was going to machine that operation.

 

I am in the process of trying to learn how to do things more efficiently and using T-Plane and WCS seems like the best approach.

[Jayson Kramer]

remember changing planes and WCS is different. you want to use a change in plane for example doing indexing on a rotary to get the rotation output as mastercam needs to see a change in plane. Now WCS set the plane as a new top and change of Datum locations if you want.

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

Reko take a look at our FREE Verisurf add-on for Mastercam. We have WCS tools in there that make using WCS a lot easier than the options Mastercam give you.

 

 

You can see many of the options we give you. The WCS is really and simple concept the problem is applying it in a real world environment. Best way I use to explain it to people I teach is look a box. A box has 6 sides and if you wanted to machine text in all 6 sides of the box you have 2 options. 1st Option would be take the box and then move it to each View thus creating 6 copies of the box to do the work. This could be done with 6 levels or 6 copies on the same level. Pretty easy concept to follow and before WCS this was juts how you did it. Now if you want Z to be on top of box for every one then not only would you have 6 copies but each one would then have to be moved to have the Z0 correct. Now by the time you were down with all of this it took you some time to do this.

 

Step 2 with a file for example:

You have this block out in space that needs this engraving done on all 6 sides. Now you try to use the cumbersome tools from Mastercam to set a WCS, but you get problems if you use solid face since it will put the Z inside the block and not be rotated the way you want.

Example here:

So if you go down this road you have to rotate and rotate until you get it right. Now lets try this same method using Verisurf's WCS by 2 lines. So we pick this method from our Free tools for all Mastercam Users. We first pick the X axis line near where we want our origin to be.

Example here:

Now we pick the Y axis line again close to our origin and the cool thing as anyone nows in Geometry 2 line define a plane and by picking the X+ and Y+ with the 2 line we also picked Z+ that quick without a lot of extra work:

Example here:

Then assigned we can rename 2 line Top in our WCS View Manager.

Example here:

Now we just do the same all the way around assigning our WCS according to where we want the origin and done. Now we apply our toolpaths based off each WCS and not out programs are all Just like example 1 expect we have one model, one level with our model and saved our selves a ton of work.

 

I also posted this code.

 

The sample file from scratch can be downloaded here: Box Plain

 

The Mastercam file with complete WCS and toolpaths: WCS Box MCX File

 

The NC code from this File using Mpmaster from In-House:NC Code

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

I guess the next question is where do I get this right?

 

Look here: Look for the Download here.

 

HTH

[Reko]

Wow, thanks Ron. That's a pretty nice freebie from Verisurf. Also, thanks for the detailed explanations.

 

I just used the add on and there was one strange thing. When I hit F9 there were two sets of coordinate lines. Is that normal?

 

BTW, a great tool. I like the access to the calculator, screenshot, etc.

[Reko]

Okay, I have one more question. When I set the new WCS by two lines, the X0,Y0 is always at the bottom left corner of my part.

 

What if I want the centerline (for example) of my part to be X0,Y0?

 

When I try to translate the part after setting the WCS, the part moves to the new location, but the lower left corner remains X0,Y0.

[Thad]

quote:

---

When I hit F9 there were two sets of coordinate lines. Is that normal?

---

Yes, that's normal. I don't like it, but it's normal. Assuming you're using the default colors, brown will show the original part zero and light blue will be the current zero.

 

quote:

---

What if I want the centerline (for example) of my part to be X0,Y0?

---

The easiest way would be to have a point at that location so when you're setting up your new WCS, you click the arrow button (by the XYZ fields), then select the point you want for zero. Otherwise, you'll need to know the numbers to type in there.

 

quote:

---

When I try to translate the part after setting the WCS, the part moves to the new location, but the lower left corner remains X0,Y0.

---

I think you're missing something here. Using the WCS makes it so you don't have to translate the part. Translating the part defeats the whole purposed of this topic.

 

Thad

[Thad]

quote:

---

WCS has to be the must confusing feature in MC. I have over 20 years experience with multiple CAD systems and MC's WCS is pretty strange.

---

Dave,

 

It must be my lack of using MANY systems that makes MC's WCS extremely simple.

 

Thad

[Dave.L]

Thad, I could go on and on but try rotating an existing WCS in a view and MC forces a new view. I know many users have ways to use it fine. I too have found ways to live with it but it's far from clean and intuitive. There is another thread out there that goes into much more detail.

 

Ps, I saw a featuremill demo and the way they do it is way better

[Reko]

quote:

---

I think you're missing something here. Using the WCS makes it so you don't have to translate the part. Translating the part defeats the whole purposed of this topic.

---

Thad,

 

You may not realize it, but that sentence is EXACTLY what I needed to hear. I'm not sure why, but this has been a particularly strange concept for me to wrap my head around. For example, I can set my WCS in a few clicks and my part is ready to go but when I look at the axis indicator in the bottom left corner of the screen, it is skewed... that drives me a bit mad. I feel as though something is not quite right even though I know it works.

 

I played with the box that Ron made available and I think I'm finally getting the concept. Thanks for the input.

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

You asked about putting the origin in the center of that box. Remember once the WCS is created in way you want you can easily move it just by clicking the Arrow select in the Box where the numbers are.

 

HTH

[Reko]

Cool. That was easy. I think I'm finally getting it.

 

Thanks a million Ron.

 

I used WCS to orient a part for our inspection guy. It was circular so I used Create WCS by Plane-Axis-Origin... very cool.

 

P.S. We just bought a new Faro Laser Tracker and our new guy isn't familiar with the software yet so I'm helping him 'til he figures it out.

 

Is Faro a competitor of Verisurf? Are you familiar with the company?

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

Reko we are a Inspection product that works inside the Mastercam environment. We allow you to use devices like the Faro tracker to inspect your parts to the model. We have a very good and long relationship with Faro and work with all of their devices. We allow you to check measurement, deviation, true position, profile, and many other things required in a quick and easy way. With that we then give you several different ways to report that out to then show the floor, engineering, source inspectors to any others that might need that reported back to them.

 

The really nice thing is we work inside of Mastercam and have a Catia translator that brings in all the FTA/MBD so you can see and check to it using Verisurf. I trained a company a couple week ago and one of their guys just commented back to us "I have learned more in one week of using Verisurf than I did in 1-1/2 years of using ??????". I am proud to work for Verisurf and the product we have to offer allows shops and companies to reduce the bottle necks Inspection use to be. If you would like some information please let me know and I will be glad to have one of our Regional Sales Managers get in touch with you. If you would like to check out our Web Site please do so. www.verisurf.com

 

Glad I could shed some light on the WCS for you and think as you use the WCS tools more you will wonder how you ever got along without them.

[Reko]

Thanks for the info Ron. I'm not necessarily involved in the inspection end of what is going on here, in fact, I've only worked here for about 8 months. I program and run a Reko Gantry CNC (hence my SN Reko ).

 

The Faro Laser Tracker runs on a software called CAM2Q. This company hired a new person that is an experienced inspector, but unfamiliar with this software and doesn't seem to have a lot of CAD experience. That is why I'm helping with some of the CAD drawing and converting files for him. He says he still has 2 more days of training left from FARO, but he's not sure when that will come about. Maybe he's getting trained by the same ????? company you mentioned :>)

 

Anyway, thanks for the additional info about Verisurf. It gives me a better perspective on QC.

 

Again, thanks for everything.

[Slapstick]

I too am having a struggle learning the way WCS's are done in mastercam... but i think i have an understanding of it now, and maybe my info can help you. Also will give people a chance to help me if i am wrong.

 

You have 3 "Planes"

 

WCS - Your Part Zero For machining - You want this setup exactly how you are going to be setting it up in the machine. This is where your XY&Z Zero's are given from.

 

Cplanes - Contruction planes, which will allow you create things on different sides of a part, simply for drawing purposes only.

 

TPlanes - Your tool plane. Typically you want this the same as your WCS unless you are on a rotary axis machine, or a horizontal mill with B Axis. This way you can select ONE XYZ Zero pickup in your WCS & at your machine, but will allow you to machine from multiple angles.

 

In the bottom RH of the screen, left click on WCS (white box) and go to "view manager".

 

There it will list all of your default views + ways to create new ones. Your active WCS is represented by a small icon on the left beside the name. (not the check mark... i believe the check mark stands for tool paths on current view?)

 

There are 2 columns called C and T... these are your construction and tool planes. There are 2 more C and T's below it that you can assign to a respective row with the plane you are using. You generally want them to be with your active Axis (the one with the icon beside it). To do this, click on the = sign over to the right, and the C and T will move in line with whichever view name you've highlighted.

 

You can create new Origins by clicking again on the white WCS square in the lower right of the screen. There are predefault WCS' already created from Top to Bottom. You can use these or make your own if you wish. You can make your own by clicking "WCS by geometry" allowing you to setup on an angled face for instance. It will prompt you to name your new view, and you can also "set new origin" to make it a WCS. Now you can move it to a location (such as a tooling ball for pickup), by clicking on the Mouse icon in the lower left corner of the window and clicking on your screen wherey ou want it placed.

 

Now you can open up your view manager again and ensure the new view you created is active (look for the icon). Now click the = sign to move your C and T planes to be relative with your new WCS and everything will be created from these XYZ rotations.

 

On your view screen, in the top left and right there are 2 XYZ Axis symbols with a T and a C below them. One shows you your tool plane while the other shows constrution (you can see if they are different from your WCS).

 

G VIEW at the bottom, is "graphics view"... so as soon as you move your camera off of any of the pre set views, it defaults to "not saved".

 

Hope this helps a little! So far this is what i have been able to teach myself.

[Reko]

SS,

 

Yes, that was helpful. It make so much more sense now then it did a week ago.

 

Thanks to everyone that helped.

[Jayson Kramer]

Here is a short video from X2 on WCS sample.

WCS X2 Sample

 

Zipped file. it is an AVI 10 mins