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cobra95kev

Question for Advanced Multi-Axis users

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I am trying to use Advanced parameters for tilting away with max. angle using lead/lag and side tilt angles gouge checking and my question is about this statement in the help file:

 

quote:

Tilt angle:

 

The tilt angle defines a conical area in which the algorithm should search for a solution. The value input is in degree. The reference is the Z axis.

We leave all of our parts in Aircraft coordinates so my question is about the Z-axis referenced in the above quote, is that Z-axis in relation to any WCS you create or does it refer back to the original system TOP WCS? If it is the latter it pretty much makes this gouge check useless unless your part is setting at the sytem origin aligned with Z-axis. Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

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I never use WCS in 5x toolpaths. The sorry thing about using Machine def's in my opinion is they should show X,Y,Z,A,B ect in relation to the machine type. but they dont. It seems to always be a guessing game as to tilt definitions and....

I need to stop before this turns into another HUGE multi axis RANT!

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I use WCS on 5X double rotary stuff all the time

with no issues but the toolpaths are all

2 and 3D in a 3+2 environment.

Full 5X .. not so much.. I've done some simple

stuff and it worked OK.. but for complex jobs

I move everything to TOP TOP TOP

 

I recall reading that the advanced 5X toolpaths don't fully respect WCS, but I could be mistaken on that.

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quote:

I recall reading that the advanced 5X toolpaths don't fully respect WCS, but I could be mistaken on that.


I think you are right on that and that is what I am finding out. It would be nice to have final confirmation from CNC on that. If it doesn't I wish they would make it so. It is just not acceptable where I work to move the model. frown.gif

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quote:

It is just not acceptable where I work to move the model.

Companies that write their QA manual this way are really forcing problems on themselves. I could argue this point 'till the cows come home (and have won many battles on this issue)...so, what do you do when you have an opposite part?? wink.gif

 

Also, if you set up a WCS back to the original position are you really moving it, or bringing it into a "different environment". wink.gif

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All models are in relation to the nose of the aircraft.

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I have had a few issues with true 5 axis paths while working with a part in out in space ( aircraft cordianates). the funny this is if you just reselct the geomety or regen the op it will spit out good code.

 

quote:

Companies that write their QA manual this way are really forcing problems on themselves. I could argue this point 'till the cows come home (and have won many battles on this issue)...so, what do you do when you have an opposite part??


Simple.......you mirror it just like anything eles.

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quote:

Simple.......you mirror it just like anything eles.

no that just causes too many problems.

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I guess it depends on how you look at it. All of our parts come in this way and it seem to work just fine for us.

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quote:

Simple.......you mirror it just like anything eles.

That would be the efficient way to do it, as most would....BUT...he posted they were not allowed to move the model. My point being that they more then likely already are moving models. And settting up a WCS back to original airplane coordinates arguably could be viewed as just changing the WCS it resides in. cheers.gif

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The aerospace shops I've worked always keep the model in aircraft coordinates.

 

1. Newer revision parts import into the same location without any guess work.

2. Working with inspection is smoother since you're both using the same coordinates.

3. When discussing model issues with your customer you're both on the same page.

4. Working with Vericut is a breeze.

 

I can see no reason to ever move an aircraft part.

As far as mirroring: In the past, shops would mirror at the control and use left-hand cutters. We'd put OPSKIPs in the program to change spindle rotation where needed. The new method seems to be creating duplicate cam operations, reversing tool path directions in cam then mirroring in the post.

 

--

Bill

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quote:

I can see no reason to ever move an aircraft part.

You have 100 % success running full 5x with that?

 

I hate moving stuff too, but for such it's gotta go to top top top.

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I have always brought my model into local space before working them in mastercam, especially the more complex ones. For 5x stuff I was told by our reseller in 02 to always bring the model out of aircraft cordinates. I've seen it both ways, and both ways work. I just had alot less troubles with my stuff then the guys that did leave there stuff in aircraft cordinates.

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Every large aerospace company I have worked for always moves the part to the best location for fixturing and programming. It's usually done in the Engineering dept during fiture design. When I get the part and fixture models they are right where they need to be for fast, accurate programming

Keep It Simple Stupid..

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quote:

for fast, accurate programming


please elaborate,

What software are you using to accomplish this task?

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quote:

What software are you using to accomplish this task?

x4 mu3

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Mayday where'd you get the X4MU4 in your siggy?

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On the aircraft type parts I copy the part to a different level, leave 1 in its original location and orientation move the other to machining orientation. I create ref geo that I use to translate the part back and forth if need be.

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quote:

In the past, shops would mirror at the control and use left-hand cutters.

WOW!! Good luck with all those carbide indexable left hand cutters and near double the tool library size. It cant imagine doing things that way today and staying in business long. confused.gif

 

quote:

On the aircraft type parts I copy the part to a different level, leave 1 in its original location and orientation move the other to machining orientation. I create ref geo that I use to translate the part back and forth if need be.

Exactly. Leave a way to get back ( to merge revisions), and save an original untranslated "source" file. The is no "guessing" to get back, it's spot on. And you are not battling the cam system that has WCS only about 80-90% working seamlessly.

 

[ 06-29-2010, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Verndog ]

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quote:

In the past, shops would mirror at the control and use left-hand cutters.

 

WOW!! Good luck with all those carbide indexable left hand cutters and near double the tool library size. It cant imagine doing things that way today and staying in business long. [Confused]

It's not that black and white. Indexable tools were left cutting conventional. Non-indexables were the only left hand grinds (in-house). It allowed having a bought off tape for both hands rather quickly. But as I said, due to the specialized nature of cutting requirements we now create copies of the operations to conventional cutting within the cam file and then mirror in the post. As far as staying in business long... one of them is the largest airframe shop in LA. A small part is 3 feet in size. wink.gif

 

--

Bill

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