5 axis vises?

[Mcam Nut]

We are looking at a few options for vises for our 5 axis mill and would like somthing with more clearance for multi axis. I was looking at Lang setups, and like all the applications it can be used for. We are also recieving a quote on a Kipp vise, but cant find alot of info on Kipp. Just wondering what most people use, or if anyone here uses Lang, or Kipp Vises.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I use and specify Raptor Workholding for 4 and 5 axis applications.

 

I also use and specify Technigrip.

 

Both are reasonably priced, versatile and well made.

 

The Raptor can be either steel or aluminum, and the Technigrip only comes in aluminum. I've had ZERO rigidity issues with either vise.

 

HTH

[Joe788]

^^^^^This.

 

Raptor and Technigrip are awesome.

[Steve Hattori]

We have a pair of Hilma 100's that we use for most things, and our own version of the Raptor/technigrip dove tail for some things- the dovetails go into the Hilma's.

Carr-lane sells the Hilma line if you are interested.

[Mcam Nut]

Those dovetail vises look good, but we are looking for something that can use soft jaws with. We dont usually do large production runs, and are looking for something that can hold many different shaped parts.

This is the Lang vise we are looking at, I like the design of it, but I am just wondering if it is worth the price or not.

 

Another nice option with the Lang is you can drill and tap a part for the pull studs, and mount your part, chuck, etc. directly to the mounting plate.

 

 

[ 07-27-2010, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Mcam Nut ]

[Mcam Nut]

I just looked at the Hilma 5 axis vises, they are a lot like what I am looking for. I will probably request a quote tomorrow

[Steve Hattori]

The Langs look nice for smaller machine- what are they priced at?

We make our own jaws for the Hilmas, Carr lane has solid models you can download. Makes it easy to put the vise in the part model so you can see interference.

[dolphin1]

kurt has a pretty nice 5 axis vise with multi config's.

 

http://www.kurtworkholding.com/workholding/vb_5axis.php

[Mcam Nut]

quote:

---

The Langs look nice for smaller machine- what are they priced at?

We make our own jaws for the Hilmas, Carr lane has solid models you can download. Makes it easy to put the vise in the part model so you can see interference.

---

The one we are looking at is actually fairly large, 5" base width, 6.5" soft jaw length, and will clamp up to 13" I just showed that model for reference. Cost for 1 vise, and mounting plate is about 5000, but we are more concerned with quality than price. I looked at Kurt, and they are nice, but think the Lang is more suited for us.

[Mcam Nut]

I didn't get around to pricing the Hilmas, do you have a rough idea what they are worth?

[Steve Hattori]

When I bought the two I have, they were about $4k ea, so not cheap. High quality, they have held up well- ours are the 100's, and we have had stuff a big as 14 x30 in them...

[Jayson Kramer]

I go with the Raptors or the Techno Grips been my favs.

[Rob_Bish]

Hilma for me.

 

repeatable and controllable clamping forces of up

to 25 kN/SCS 80 and 40 kN/SCS 120

jaw with a special grip for maximum holding force

(factor 3 as compared with standard jaw)

 

http://www.hilma.de/product_info.php?cPath...ical%20operated

[cunder]

What type of machine config are these 5-axis vises best suited for. We have a new machine but it has a removable trunnion table that has an 8 inch diameter face plate work holding surface.

[crazy^millman]

If that were the case I would design my own holding system using some of the above compotents. Dovetail has it place, grid has it place and other things all do things for the work. Really comesdown to you need. What are you looking to do? Are you doing production? Are you doing tight tolerance +/-.0002? Is the work manifolds? All types of things make a difference. Research design and talk it over with your co-workers to come up with the best answer.

[Mcam Nut]

What type of machine config are these 5-axis vises best suited for. We have a new machine but it has a removable trunnion table that has an 8 inch diameter face plate work holding surface.

 

 

We bought it for a vertical 5 axis with a rotary table, but I think it would work great on almost any machine.

[Mcam Nut]

Just as a update we did purchase the Lang setup We also bought a 2 sided tombstone for the vises to mount to. After 1 month of use I am very impressed with the quality and functionality of this setup. It makes for much faster setups, and much greater repeatability from our old setups. Also having the tombstone, basically turns our machine into a horizontal mill, so chip removal on a large part is no longer a issue. I will post some pics next week of some of our setups.

[Bob W.]

I bought a TechniGrip vise, pulled all of the hardware and made my own base that I designed and built specifically for my trunnion's b-axis. It does work well and it only took a day to design and build the new base. I couldn't find a good way to mount the existing base to my trunnion (Haas TR160) because it is pretty small.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

On this note... anyone have any suggestions for Hydraulic/Pneumatic 5-Axis stuff besides Schunk? Everything else I see is manual. I need to automate, and manual ain't gonna git 'er done.

[Dave.L]

On this note... anyone have any suggestions for Hydraulic/Pneumatic 5-Axis stuff besides Schunk? Everything else I see is manual. I need to automate, and manual ain't gonna git 'er done.

 

James, I am assuming you need automatic for a robot interface - correct? With that said, custom is probably the way to go.

[35K chipper]

James,

here are two i use.

 

http://www.vektek.com

 

and

 

http://www.pascaleng...ucts/index.html

 

hope that helps.

 

35k

 

one more

 

http://www.compactautomation.com

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Dave, yes this is for an automated solution. I prefer to NOT go custom if I can help it. Whenever possible I go with "Off the shelf". Not because I'm not creative enough to come up with a better design but because I usually have VERY compressed schedules. I will go with off the shelf and modify when and if necessary.

 

Thanks 35k. Pascal was what I was looking for.

[Dave.L]

Dave, yes this is for an automated solution. I prefer to NOT go custom if I can help it. Whenever possible I go with "Off the shelf". Not because I'm not creative enough to come up with a better design but because I usually have VERY compressed schedules. I will go with off the shelf and modify when and if necessary.

 

Thanks 35k. Pascal was what I was looking for.

 

Even as a design engineer, I never design custom unless I have too. But, not knowing your application and your statement about not using Schunk, I was under the impression that you needed something very special.

 

I looked at the Pascal link super quick, but I see nothing their other than swing clamps and pallet clamps....I did not see any automated, 5 axis off the shelf workholding. Yes, they have self centering vises but so does Schunk.

[?Mark]

Just as a update we did purchase the Lang setup We also bought a 2 sided tombstone for the vises to mount to. After 1 month of use I am very impressed with the quality and functionality of this setup. It makes for much faster setups, and much greater repeatability from our old setups. Also having the tombstone, basically turns our machine into a horizontal mill, so chip removal on a large part is no longer a issue. I will post some pics next week of some of our setups.

 

So where are the pictures?

 

We're seriously considering this setup for our large 5 axis cnc. Any thoughts after having used them for a while? Repeatability? Do you use 2 sets of vises for larger/longer parts?

TIA

[rx8pilot]

Those dovetail vises look good, but we are looking for something that can use soft jaws with. We dont usually do large production runs, and are looking for something that can hold many different shaped parts.

[ 07-27-2010, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Mcam Nut ]

 

I use Raptors and we do only small runs. The concept is that you dovetail the stock which is about 30sec cycle time for us. After that, all the 5 axis work is done in a single shot with only a small patch on the bottom of the stock to deal with. After the Raptor, we generally put in a variety of vises to do the last remaining setup with soft jaws. Almost everything we do can be done in two setups - the part I am doing now has 18 index positions (or setups on a 3 axis machine). We do it in 2 and it happens very fast - even for one-offs which we do all the time.

 

Downside of Raptor is that the clamps are weak and crack. They sell replacements for $80/pair. It's a poor design IMHO. 5axisworkholding.com has an alternative but I have not tried them. For first operations in 5 axis, I don't think I would be happy with vises - they get in the way.