CAT 40 ER16

[Scott Bond]

Good Morning

 

We have 14 parts that need a couple of dozen of these holders each at the same time. I would like to make them on our lathes. I was hoping that one of you might have a Cat40 M.C. file that you could post on the FTP. Or if not, maybe a little "HOW TO" advise. At this point I am thinking of buying the pull studs, nuts, and collets--Just making the holders. What material should I start with? Will I be able to avoid heat treating?. I am expecting to make the hole part on our single spindle lath,except the key cuts(no grinding).

[Allan]

You could make them yourself, but you have to ask yourself what business am I in. (do we make tool holders here?) What are they worth, in Canada you can get the holder for like 140.00 Can so thats like under 100.00 USD count on 1 hour per part machining time at least, not much money left for material.

 

If your intent on making them yourself I would start with 4140QT

 

Allan

[iowajim62]

Hi Scott,

I know somebody in here mentioned the holder

definition for MC to use for backplot and Verify

is already drawn for you but you'll have to dig

to find it in your MC folder. As far as not heat-treating them, that might cause problems down the road as well as possibly cracking the first time

you crank a collet down good and tight and start cutting. Ambitious project good luck!!!

[McRae]

There are several grinding operations on the tapers - Both the Cat40 and the collet opening. The general form of the taper can be found inside the Machinery's Handbook. Check the purchase price on a "Tooling package" from Kennametal or Parlec as they may extend additional discounts for a bulk purchase.

 

The toolholder is a limiting factor into the level of quality the final part will have - remember Garbage In - Garbage Out... So if you can't make it better than the next guy, Don't!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Dude,

 

Don't do it!

 

Go buy the the holders. Holders are for the most part an extremely high precision piece of tooling. You could end up damaging your spindle or worse, getting somebody hurt. But, if you're hell bent on doing it, the holder definition in MC is wrong. You'll need to find somebody with a sandvik CD. They have holders drawn precicely in there.

 

HTH

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Oh, I almost forgot. If you'res still considering do ing it, think about this for a few minutes. There's a reason why holders are heat treated and ground. It's probably going to take you at least two weeks to do this after you've got your material and tooling together. Then you have to send it out for heat treat. So, if your shop rate is at say $55 per hour you'll spend at least 80 hours on these things that's about $4400. Heat treat's gonna run you another $100 minimum, plus the cost of the material, ..... plus.....plus..... Dude, Buy the stinking holders! The machines could be doing something productive that you could sell to a customer You're already totally upside down considering just those factors.

 

Don't do it Scott.

 

JM2C

 

[ 11-05-2002, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[chris m]

Scott

 

I have to say that I would agree with the gentlemen encouraging you to buy the chucks. By the time you buy the pull studs, the collet caps, and the stock for the chuck bodies then machine the bodies I can't imagine you would come out very far ahead. I know that typical pull studs [retention knobs, whatever you call them in your place] run about $12 and the collet caps are as much as $35. Add to that the fact that the chucks you buy will last far longer, run far better, and probably produce far better results.

 

Just the programming, setup, and gaging invovled would be more of a hassle than its worth. If it was easier and more practical to make these than buy them; wouldn't everybody be doing it?

 

I recently purchased several nice Lyndex chucks for $135 including the pull stud. If you tell a distributor that you are looking at purchasing a couple of HUNDRED chucks; I'm sure you'd be into serious discounts.

 

Don't waste your time

 

C

 

[ 11-05-2002, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Tony]

If everyone Here chipped in $5.00 each

We could buy Scott the holders

There $85.00 here in the Midwest.

[Mgrenier]

Hey Scott,

 

I agree with everebody else, don't get into that mess. We tried it where I worked before and found out that it was just not worth it.

 

But if you still want to go ahead with this, you can go to the Sandvik web site and get the CAD drawing of the tool you need file of all of their tooling and everything is to scale, very usefull.

 

Once on the site, go to "products" -> "Find Products" -> "CAD drawings."

 

Sandvik web site

 

Hope this is going to help,

[MetalMarvels]

The last place that I worked needed a custom, CAT-40 holder. After 2 weeks worth of work, they got what they thought was a good product, put it into the mill and stuck it........ The spindle had to be removed and disassembled to remove the holder. It turned out that the taper on the holder was off by less than 0.1 degrees.

 

A custom-ground holder from a group that makes holders for a living cost only $560. The in-house holder cost in excess of $5200 (the spindle nose was trashed! plus all the labor and tool time).

 

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheePres]

Scott,

U.S. Shop Tools in Anaheim US Shop Tools. Sells some inexpensive holders. Iv'e bought some for as low as $70. If you are interested in used holders, e-mail me for info on this (have contact).

[TheePres]

Oh! Just called US up, now $90 for imported brand. 10%Discount on 10 or more.

[Scott Bond]

Hi This Is ""Don't do it Scott"" Talking

 

The holders I need are all the same size ,

I am considering a 200 piece run on one of our idol laths. I will wait until Friday for any purchase of stock or ordering of any parts .

The quotes for price and delivery are way on the high side.

Parlec $118 us

and 2 1/2 weeks

I am surprised at how offish the guys have been.

 

I am not aqfraid of anything " I'm married"

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Scott,

 

Making holders is not like making some stupid widget. There is a reason why Haas STOPPED making them. Take our advise and abandon the idea. Maybe you shoudl look for another vendor, and 200 Holders is an awful lot of holders for somebody to stock. Perhaps with an order liek that you could get the attention of the Holder Mfr instead of a distributor.

 

Somehting to think about.

[mold100]

Hey a little late ringing in here ,But goin with the pack dont do it.You cant possibly be able to meet

the specs on a tool holder for as cheap as you can buy'm.(I am not doubting your skills)Also dont

buy Parlec direct we use all parlec and I cant remember when a holder cost me more than 90.00

dollars through MSC they buy in bulk and can be worked over a bit, give them the economy sucks speech and maybe they'll loosen up a bit.If not there has gotta be a cheaper way.

[Scott Bond]

Ok Ok

A jumper wouldn't get this many people yelling don't do it.

I have delivered all your posts to the higher ups, and they are buying the holders.

 

Thanks for all the replies

[maestro]

Iscar has a promotion going on now wher if you buy $2000 worth of collet holders and collets, you pay half price. ER16 collet holders for about $85 ea, collets $11 each. ETM brand, balanced to 20,000 rpm. Just bought $2000 worth for $1000 here at our shop.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I didn't mean to be so harsh, just wanted to make a point. Do you still like me?

[MetalMarvels]

Whew.... At least this way you will still like yourself in the morning!

[Scott Bond]

quote:

---

Do you still like me?

---

Oh but Of course.

I just realy wanted to make the science project.

I made my original post to get the wisdom of the Forum members ,and got it. And I thank everybody for participating.

[iowajim62]

Hi Scott,

Just a bit of info for everybody. Up here at our mini version of Westec I watched a Mazak Integrex turn out Cat 40 Holders complete with 1" 2 Fl. EM and Pullstud. The Mazak guy then took these tools and loaded them in the machine and milled flats around alum barstock. Pretty awesome display !

But again not something for daily use.

[chris m]

Scott

 

I'm glad you elected not to do it; I know that it can be interesting [and a matter of personal pride] to do unusual work but you would really be setting yourself up for serious aggravation making those holders. Tell your purchasing department to go to work beating up those vendors!

 

quote:

---

I watched a Mazak Integrex turn out Cat 40 Holders complete

---

Funny; I've been watching an Integrex do NOTHING for quite awhile now....

 

[ 11-06-2002, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[TheePres]

Scott,

There is Aerospace shop in your neck of the woods, that supposedly makes all there own CAT holders. ADI ?

[Scott Bond]

Thanks TheePres

I am woundering if they got this to work for them. One of their cheifs(on the floor) Is a local BMX dad. And I will ask about the holders at the next race I see him at.

 

Scott

[cadcam]

I will have to look next time I am over teaching at ADI.