OT Tooling in USA moving to China

[Jody]

this is two articles about the trade in the USA disappering.

 

http://www.heraldpalladium.com/display/inn_business/biz1.txt

 

http://www.heraldpalladium.com/display/inn_business/biz2.txt

 

 

Jody

CTM

 

[ 02-18-2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: jagourley ]

[jspangler]

HI

I Don't even have to read those articles to know that 50% of my business has been lost to overseas companies in the last 2 years alone. hard to compete with slave labor, but hey FREE TRADE will make us all rich right??

 

 

Right...

 

John

[Guy Arseneault]

The company I work for has quoted jobs that end up overseas, specifically(sp)China and then we get to fix their mistakes when they don't run correctly. They'll spend what they saved in corrections.You figure.

 

jm2c

 

Guy

[Alan S]

This is not just happening in the states but for us over here in England as well. We have seen a 40% reduction in injection mould tools in the last 2 years to our competitors in Asia (China mainly).

These countries do not have the same stringent rules and regulations that we have imposed on us on everything from health and safety to equal opportunities, working conditions etc...

Something is going to give and I think it will be sooner rather than later.

[Toolfab]

Getting parts from overseas is becoming the trend, but when these companys can't get the delivery times they NEED they will come back. There is no-way with going through customs and all the other b.s. that you can get quick lead times. IMO

[Guest]

China is a problem. A lot also has to do with bootleg sowtware and lower plastic raw material costs.

I am not happy with the offshore outfits either.

I also wonder about the effect of the funds Clinton recieved from Chineese sources. There used to be a word for that.

Now China seems to be quite friendly with North Korea.

I wonder if higher fuel prices would cause shipping costs to take the profit margin.

I can not see where a country without manufacturing can remain strong for very long.

[Scott Bond]

The Huffy Bicycle Company,controls over 20 percent of the U.S. bicycle market. Huffy shut down its last three remaining U.S. plants to outsource its production to China, Mexico and Taiwan.

The China worker is working for 2% of what the us worker was getting for the same bike,((,slave wages--))

 

I ride a STAATS bike made in U.S.A.

And I have an S-10 pickup, and a Suburban

I use HAAS.

I use Fadal.

 

So these are just a couple of things to think about when you by that cheap tool room lath ,or any Mitsubishi product that uses the three bladed propeller from the pearl harbor kamikaze zero's as their logo.(remember Pearl Harbor?)

 

Guys somebody is buying this stuff from WalMart.If it is problem , then stop supporting

them.

[rob@fain]

Scott,

You are right about the Wal-Mart stuff. Wal-Mart sells very little, if anything, that is made here eventhough they claim to promote Made In America.

 

rob

[Tony]

We have an Enco Lathe.

Are Management was wondering if Enco

Also Makes a Wire Machine!?!

Thank God they Don't...

[mark l]

Here is something else to think about-

 

I got an email a while back about which oil companies buy oil from the middle east, and which ones don't, Exxon was a big buyer, while Phillip 66 and B.P. buys 0 gallons from the middle east. All these countries HATE the U.S. but we buy all there fuel, clothes, cars, etc. I am only one person and probably won't make a bit of diffrence, but I do drive right down the road t othe Phillip 66 station to fill my Ford and Dodge trucks up, and I just filled out an order for some tool room supplies, (paralles, edgefinder, indecators, etc.) and did not buy the Value Brand, only Made in U.S.A. management will probably kick it out though.

 

Sorry for the rant I just take it all kind of personal.

[Superfly]

I agree,I also buy the Made in USA tooling as much as I can.

But when our shop needs a new cnc lathe,we pretty much only look at Mori Seiki.

Kinda pricy,but I haven't seen another that can compete.

Okuma makes a decent one,with great controls,I think they are built in North Carolina,at least some of them may be.

[Charles Davis]

I am actually seeing company's that moved from the US to Tijuana 10-15 years ago now move to China.

 

Tijuana labor has become more expensive. China labor costs are low, and the quality is, in general, better than what you get in Mexico (please don't flame me for the generalization!!!!).

 

IMHO Mexico did not invest enough in education and infrastructure during that 10-15 years when company's were moving in.

 

There are lots of reasons company's move: labor costs, labor skills, environmental regulations, product quality, lower taxes, proximity to customers, and so on.

 

China is becoming a mfg powerhouse, and it's hard to buy a consumer product now that isn't made in China.

 

Find a niche and dig in.

[Alan S]

My arguement is how can we compete in England or America with our hands tied behind our backs with one regulation after another which are imposed on us by our governments, and then for those same goverments to do nothing to safe guard our jobs against companies which then take their businesses elsewhere.

In my mind I would say that import taxes would have to be raised so it is not ecconomically viable to produce something in certain countries and then ship them to ours.

But all I ever here then is it would affect 'Free Trade' but we must do something.

Anyone got suggestions ?

[Gary]

The government had good intentions on gving other countries tariff breaks ect. There thought is that it will help increase those countries wealth so that they may become consumers of products, like americans are. In turn they would then start to buy are products we produce. But instead, these countries are not speading the wealth to its people. They keep it between a select few who can control it's distibution. Thus, insuring there slave labor wages and keeping there prices lower than there competitors.

[Jody]

In the AMBA News & Views winter 2003 addition there is an article named "How to Contact Your Local Government" it has sample letters to the government. I think that every Mold Maker and Tool and Die Maker in the USA should read that article and then write a letter to the Senators and the Representatives.

 

www.amba.org

 

to find out your local officials fo here

www.senate.gov

www.house.gov

 

i will try to scan this article in and post it on friday.

 

Jody

 

[ 02-20-2003, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: jagourley ]

[KJS]

Maybe what we need to do is offer U.S. companies incentives to keep production here. For example why noy offer companies tax breaks based on their number of U.S. employees. The more employees you keep in America, the less tax you pay.

[TimHollis]

Look what happened to Bridgeport.

 

I remember back, when I was talking to the parts department there, and when I asked about how the company was doing, and I was told " they closed the production doors in CT, last week, Harig grinders will continue on its own, and they are shopping the name to a couple of buyers" I was thinking, how sad it was, that a true icon is gone, just like the Camaro, is going, and OH GOD, a front wheel drive Monte Carlo, wasn't bad enough. Now I know I’m getting old, time was I wouldn't give a **** about such things.

 

I know to well, that companies have to do their part to stay competitive. I finally went from the bottom of the food chain (maintenance) to the top (COO) running other peoples small companies (800 employees). Then I wanted to do my own, started with 12 grew to 80 employees. I learned things, they cannot teach you in school--40% of my customer base were fortune 1000 companies NOT PAYING THEIR BILLS ON TIME, and still calling to place orders for their out of USA production lines. More than once I found myself calling some CFO transplant from another country ( after accounting tried for 3 months) and telling him (I’m not producing for you till you pay and I am going to cut your molds in half after my lawyers get the judgment). You get to hang up the phone and reach in YOUR POCKET, to make the $ 36,500 payroll that week. All because Payroll, Suppliers, Rent and Utilities will not let you pay 60, 90, or in some cases 180 on $250,000. The small guys are smaller volume, but it was more personal, and they were better payers--In the same boat I figure!!

 

So then I said the *** with it, and relocated outside the USA to avoid supporting drug addicts having large families without the responsibilities. Now I get the benefit of a tax exemption to the tune of the 1st 80g and I still work for a USA Fortune 500 company, get to come home monthly, And the best part is I enjoy what I do best, taking it from my imagination to reality in a high volume manufacturing environment, where a exceptional salary is about $1000 US dollars @ month. That’s 1/2 my weekly pay (NO TAXES 1st 80g). I live VERY WELL. Better now than I ever did at any time in the U.S., and yes sometimes I do get homesick, in a way I am just like the company I work for. Because the company does what it has to, to survive in these times ( in a American Free Trade Zone).

 

MADE IN JAPAN so what??? IT could have & should have said MADE IN THE USA, but that ball was started right after WWII long before me. And before you wave the Flag at me, I’m 8 years, US Navy, Nuclear Propulsion Submarine, till I picked up too many rad’s to go out to sea, Shore Command wasn’t for me, so I opted out. Now I save as much as I can, so I can come back permanently to retire while I am still alive.

 

I don’t care were its made or comes from, but certain things should not change (I remember when Rockwell bought ALLEN/B industrial controls to keep Siemans Automation from purchasing them, but only after our Government promised certain contracts if they did so).

In the American Free Trade Zone, I work in, containers of raw material are shipped in weekly, and finished goods are shipped out weekly. With all Engineering for products and revisions being done back in the USA. No Tariffs what so ever. And as far as customs, the containers are sent door to door, and the agent is there on either end when we open them up, The guys in shipping are on 1st name basis with these guys. Our Government hit a home run with that piece of legislation.

 

I wish I could say I, worked at a company for 20 years like my Dad did. But those days are gone for me. I have to look at the changes in my life, as challenges to adapt and evolve, just to stay 1 step ahead of everyone else.

 

 

Thanks

The Expat

[Scott Bond]

Good morning

I asked our new 20 year old what he thought

about Tooloing moving to China. He said::

"""" I thought Too Ling was Korean""""

 

I think Mr. Davis has the idea.

quote:

---

Find a niche and dig in.

---

[jspangler]

HI

If you want to read the truth about "Free Trade", then read anything by Noam Chomsky. It'll definitely ruin your day, but everything suddenly starts making sense.

 

But not in a good way.

 

John

[Jody]

just got this as an email:

 

 

interesting read the bottom

>

> WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States recorded a $435.2 billion trade

> deficit for 2002, the largest imbalance in history, as the weak global

> economy set back American exports while imports of autos and other

> consumer goods were hitting all-time highs. Even in agricultural

> products, normally a U.S. bulwark, Americans bought more imported

> wine, cheese and other foods than American farmers were able to sell

> abroad - resulting in only the second U.S. trade deficit in

> agricultural products on record. The Commerce Department reported

> Thursday that the deficit for all of last year was up 21.5% from the

> $358.3 billion trade gap recorded in 2001 and surpassed the old record

> deficit of $378.7 billion set in 2000. By country, the United States

> ran up the largest trade gap with China, a deficit of $103.1 billion,

> marking the third straight year that the United States has recorded

> its largest trade deficit with that nation. It pushed the former

> front-runner in this category, Japan, into second place. In addition

> to the record for all of 2002, the United States set a new monthly

> high of $44.2 billion in December, up 10.5% from the previous record

> set in November of $40.0 billion. Opponents of President Bush's trade

> policies contend that the huge trade deficits represent the loss of

> millions of manufacturing jobs as U.S. companies have been battered by

> what the critics say is unfair competition from low-wage countries

> that stifle labor rights and have lax environmental protections.

> However, the administration contends that it is pursuing the correct

> procedure in trying to cut global trade deals that will lower high

> barriers in other countries in a way that boosts American exports.

>

[jspangler]

What correct procedure is he attempting here. has he ever heard of the saying "numbers don't lie"

 

Or

 

"The truth hurts like a mother***, but it's still the truth".

 

 

?

 

But, what I love the most is when I see chinese duplicates of parts I designed for the import aftermarket 2-3 years ago, being sold in local asian ( no offense to any asian board members intended ) owned speed/tuner shops SELLING for less than what it costs me to make them!!!

Then I get slammed on the net by customers wanting to know why the prices are what they are.

 

 

John

www.hotshot.com

[Jack Mitchell]

My first point is that nobody ever regrets buying quality; I have never heard any person complain about buying a quality product.

 

Second point is that these companies that are closing and moving to Mexico, Taiwan, Korea, and China are owned by whom? Just an analogy that these are owned by very wealthy businessmen from the very countries that are closing them down; perhaps I’m looking at this with my eyes wide shut, or am I?

 

The poor quality historically produced in China has changed in the last 5 or 10 years, I believe this to be directly proportionate to their foreign owners to adapt to manufacturing goods cheap, cheaper, and cheapest; it’s not the owner’s fault that we have arrived at this advance, it’s all of our faults – we want everything to be more affordable, we want the one dollar hamburger with a ten dollar taste; perhaps my vision is a little narrow on this subject, perhaps there will be those that would consider this argument more closer to the truth.

How many of the novelty toys that you purchase for your children at the fast food chains are actually made somewhere other than China or Korea?

 

Protectionism isn’t working in my opinion.

Boycotting only works when there is some kind of gross indecency associated to it.

Economic sanctions like those imposed on Iraq do not work, just ask Saddam.

Cuba is still there regardless of the impact of the 60s.

 

In closing guy’s – you get what you pay for, otherwise you have a choice when making purchasing decisions, not just some of them – all of them, perhaps it’s your spouse that makes these decisions, no slight intended.

 

Lay waste or make haste, for I might some day end up in Japan or China as an English professor teaching Cnc to the new generation – go figure.

 

Regards, Jack

[Guest]

Well, we probably will not go to war with North Korea since they are friends with China. China would not make supplies for our Army.

[Jody]

Here is a link to try to help save our industry. It has sample letters to send to our leaders.

 

 

www.mckennaservice.com

 

 

Jody