Y-axis lathe comparrisons

[chris m]

Tastes GREAT

[Joe788]

Wow, this thread has really grown some legs!

 

OK:

 

1) Assignment of my own local variable names

 

I don't know if the Matrix control can do this or not. It's never even occurred to me as something to desire. I don't really see why this is important, because you still need to keep track of the names.

 

2) Alpha-numeric line numbering and subroutine naming ("NTURN" for start of turning called cycle, "NPROB" for start of probing cycle)

 

I guess that's pretty cool? Not something I'd ever use, because you still need to keep track of the unique names. So it's no different than standardizing the block numbering throughout the shop.

 

3) Easy use of logical operators and arithmetic functions without #501 this and #100 that

 

I've never seen any reason why you couldn't do this on a Mazak control?

 

4) Blank shape definition for non-copy-turning canned cycles of premachined blanks or cast parts

Pretty sure Mazak has been doing this since 1982.

 

5) Read current status of any machine input or output through the part program on (is load monitor on, single block on, op stop on)

That is actually really cool, and takes some effort to do on a Mazak (depending on what you want to monitor/read/write).

 

 

6) Write to and read from tool length offsets or work offsets directly, no middle-man variables or G10 bullsh!t

Piece of cake. Never used a Mazak or Fanuc control that couldn't do this. (Except for the G10 "bullxxxx"? It's just a code to tell the control to write to an address. Don't really see what's bullxxxx about it?)

 

7) Write to soft limits in machine for every tool or operation to prevent crashes or scrapped parts caused by offsetting errors or operator's pulse generator input

 

How about full 3D machine simulation to stop the chimps from crashing that long boring bar through the back wall with the MPG?

 

 

From the stuff you listed, it's sort of obvious that your love of the OSP control is due to:

 

#1- It's a pretty cool control.

#2- You have lots of experience with it.

#3- You don't have lots of current experience with other current controls, and the ones you do have experience with, you don't like them because they don't do it the same way Okuma does.

[chris m]

We were talking about Fanuc and Mitsubishi controls because of the Mori-Seiki argument; I know nothing about Mazatrol or Mazak controls.

 

Yes, OSP is cool, yes I have a lot of experience with it, no I haven't spent as much time with others (we have Fanucs, Mitsubishis, Yasnacs) but I am unlikely to because we love the OSP and the iron they're mounted on. Our new Matsuura is coming in at the beginning of next month with a Fanuc 30i on it, so we'll see what that b!tch can do.

 

Okuma has 3D simulation and "collision avoidance"

[SKIR68]

We have a brand new Okuma Lb3000 with a p2000l control.There is NO space in this machine! Especially when trying to mill on the sub spindle! Its a rigid machine. We have been milling a radius on a part and cant seem to hold .0005

We have been sending the post back almost daily for over a month now. I like the machine, but alot of headaches because of post issues, its too new and nobody has a good working post. Just my .02!!

[Joe788]

We were talking about Fanuc and Mitsubishi controls because of the Mori-Seiki argument; I know nothing about Mazatrol or Mazak controls.

 

 

Oh I see. I figured you mentioned Mitsubishi because the original post was about Mazak and Okuma (and Mazak controls use Mitsubishi hardware).

[Greg Williams]

its too new and nobody has a good working post

 

This machine has been around for a few years now, MPpostability and In-House have posts for this machine. The P200L was also fitted to LB100 series lathes before the 1000 series was released. Basically any Sub spindle Okuma A turret lathe code will work.

 

This discussion reminds me of the Mac vs. PC war. We're just going to have to agree to disagree

 

Yeah very true, One man's heaven is another man's hell

 

But, like I said before, all the things you listed so far are things I can EASILY do on many Nakamura Lathes

 

Just out of interest, is this function linked to Macro B or something else?

The variables Chris is talking about work on all Okuma's as these settings use the internal OSP system variables

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

But, like I said before, all the things you listed so far are things I can EASILY do on many Nakamura Lathes

 

Just out of interest, is this function linked to Macro B or something else?

The variables Chris is talking about work on all Okuma's as these settings use the internal OSP system variables

AFAIK, they are FANUC System Variables (at least most functions). Some might be specific to Nakamura as they have enhanced some FANUC Features (Tool LIfe Management, Load Monitoring, etc...), but the system variables are available for checking and or manipulation. Some you can only read, but others are read/write. Nakamura has taken the FANUC platform and ratcheted it up a boatload. There's MANY things we can do on Nakamuras that just are not possible/available on other machines. One example... Your typical CNC lathe;imagine driving a tool into a chuck (never happens right?)...

 

 

basically we can detect this condition and shut things down before MAJOR damage occurrs. NO other builder does this. They may have collision avoidance and other such countermeasures but none are as effective as this at preventing costly damage to lathes. There are two types of lathes, those that have been crashed and those that will be crashed.

[Greg Williams]

They may have collision avoidance and other such countermeasures but none are as effective as this at preventing costly damage to lathes

 

LOL - Are you sure you are not is sales?

 

If you had CAS the machine would not even do this move.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

They may have collision avoidance and other such countermeasures but none are as effective as this at preventing costly damage to lathes

 

LOL - Are you sure you are not is sales?

 

If you had CAS the machine would not even do this move.

 

... even when the setup guy screws up? Even Vericut won't catch operator/setup screw up.

 

DEFINITELY NOT in sales.

[Greg Williams]

Even Vericut won't catch operator/setup screw up.

 

True but the CAS system is a very robust system and it works in Manual, MDI and Auto.

I do like the Airbag feature, I think it has a place. It would be nice to have both CAS and the airbag feature. New tool holders are cheap compared to spindles.

 

DEFINITELY NOT in sales

 

Good I was starting to wonder if you had moved to the dark side Glad to hear that you are still a member of the circle.

[chris m]

Man, I get the heebie-jeebies just watching that video; collisions with the chuck are the greatest nightmare of any lathe programmer; any feature that can help prevent this is worth the investment.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Happened at a shop I used to work at a few years ago on a Mori live tool lathe. Sounded like a bomb going off and shook the floor. The machine was down for two weeks while getting the spindle replaced.

[gcode]

A shop I use to contract for got a brand new 8" chucker in.

The very first day, an operator ran a program with a G50 S6000 spindle clamp

and 6 feet of Ø1" 304 stainless hanging out the back.

It actually sheared the holddown bolts off at the floor and the machine started walking

and the whipping barstock gouged a big gash in the concrete floor.

It ran for almost 2 minutes until someone foound the correct circuit breaker to kill it.

It completely demolished the whole back end of the machine. No one was hurt, but they were picking

pieces of concrete and sheet metal out of the ceiling for weeks.

They repaired the machine but it never did run right.

Some kind of software shutdown would have been invaluable in that case.

 

 

[DavidB]

MOri uses CAPS Convesational Automatic Programming System.

 

Bolt holes.

 

 

 

Define any stock shape you want.

 

 

The NL is not Fanuc drives its Mitsubishi.

 

The controller is MappIV withs Mori Caps convesational programming not Fanuc

[Dave.L]

Man seeing that CAPPS screen again reminds me of my last nightmare....CAPPS has some really xxxx-backward stuff, Go CAM all the way and drop CAPPS like a bad habbit

[Joe788]

Man seeing that CAPPS screen again reminds me of my last nightmare....CAPPS has some really xxxx-backward stuff, Go CAM all the way and drop CAPPS like a bad habbit

 

LOL! CAPPS = The reason Mori just said F-it, and installed Esprit on all of the machines.

[Dave.L]

LOL! CAPPS = The reason Mori just said F-it, and installed Esprit on all of the machines.

 

 

Esprit is almost as bad. It posts very good code and I do like some of the features but man is Esprit lame on so many levels. I was really hoping it would be better..

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Mori's been messin wif CAPPS for 15+ years. If they have not got it right yet, it ain't ever gonna be right.

[mkd]

looking at a 10 year old Gildemeister Model CTX 400 Twin Spindle.

Heidenhain Turn Plus CNC Control Pilot 4290 Version 6.1

.

 

being a mostly Fanuc and Haas guy, the control has got me a little skiddish.

learning new control with new programming requirements may be justified for the price of the machine i'm seeing.

 

any thoughts? pitfalls?

 

they say it's got 20,000 hours on it.

[Newbeeee™]

FWIW i think the CTX were made in Italy by Grazziano for DMG. I think (lot of thinking here...) they are now part of the DMG group.

As always the 3 'esses' - service, support and spares may be the issue.

[mkd]

mmm

i guess Ellison would handle parts and service in so cal.

 

mori/dmg website mentioned Guild. stuff will/is be built in china.....

[DavidB]

Bruce did you ever get a machine in the end?

 

Need some tooling LOL.

 

Now I'm not at DMG/Mori anymore I can now say what I'd buy if it was my coin. LOL

[cadman2112]

I am going to to a shop that "had" a CTX, he was extremely happy when they dumped it and bought something else....

 

I personally have zero experience, other than writing a post for one but he was the owner and hated the thing.

[mkd]

just talked to a buddy who worked on Guild. with three spindles and 13 axis total.

he said it was a million dollar turd.

 

the old saying; you remember low quality long after the sweetness of a low price. or something like that.

 

Now I'm not at DMG/Mori anymore I can now say what I'd buy if it was my coin. LOL

and the winner is?

[Mick]

Bruce did you ever get a machine in the end?

 

Need some tooling LOL.

 

Now I'm not at DMG/Mori anymore I can now say what I'd buy if it was my coin. LOL

 

LOL. So... what would you buy, now that you are free of those chains?