New to WCS

[Guy Arseneault]

I have a drawing that I am working on in the FRONT wcs. What I like to do is have the drawing rotated 180 degrees for a new wcs plane, is this possible?

[kathy]

Yes -

 

Do you want to veiw the 'drawing' or lay down toolpath on the part?

 

Kathy

[TeccBoxx]

Bah the WCS I hate the WCS. It is a great part of mastercam but I think the importance of it is over-rated. Especially on the Mastercam Certification Tests, well at least that is what I hear I havn't taken it yet.

 

Heck I think someone could write a book on WCS it is so confusing. Great thread though I need to figure it out as well.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Bah the WCS I hate the WCS

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Actually, it can be very confusing, especially with the T/C Planes still available. I still have trouble with it from time to time. The biggest thing that helps me is to create all your WCS's first, assign origins/offsets, and be sure to change to the current WCS for the op you're doing.

 

The WCS is a great feature, but it will take some getting used to..

 

'Rekd teh often hated until understood

[mayday]

You must be talking about the worst coordinate system.

give me back the named cplane, tplane anyday

[Surface]

I recently learned how it works, because I thought it would give me added benifits with high-feed and Verify, but those moduals haven't yet caught-on.

I prefer to manually rotate the part to another level.

[Guy Arseneault]

Kathy,

 

That is what I want to do. The geometry is at 6 o'clock and I want it at 12 o'clock in the FRONT wcs plane so I can machine it.

 

[ 06-05-2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Guy Arseneault ]

[Rekd™]

Sorry, Guy..

 

I was gonna answer your ? and I got lost in the shuffle..

 

What I do is position the view the way I want to machine it, then go to WCS, right click the window, and select CREATE - COPY CURRENT GVIEW, then select the origin for that view.

 

HTH

 

'Rekd teh Memory Leak

 

[ 06-05-2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Zero]

Ok, this is the problem I believe you're gonna run into using v9.1. If I understand you correctly Guy, you want to keep the (front) z-axis the way it is and rotate it to flip your x,y directions. So what you do is open the wcs manager and set your wcs, c&t/planes to front. Close the wcs manager and make sure your part is in top view. Open the wcs manager back up and right click the active wcs and choose Create>Select menu and in the menu choose Rotate.

 

Here is where the problem lies with v9.1. In 9sp1, after choosing rotate from the select menu you would get a representation of your current wcs in white and you have the option to choose which axis you want to rotate about and what dgree you would like to rotate. Simple, just choose about Z, enter desired amount and presto, new wcs.

Now in v9.1, after choosing rotate from the select menu, the white axis representation is flipped (I think back to the original wcs, I'm not sure, I ran into this 3 or 4 times and just stopped rotating my wcs' and delt with them the way they were) and not in your current active wcs,t&c/plane. This screws things all up because you first have to rotate the z to the correct axis which is basicly a guessing game because you cant actually be sure which way the z is going(positive or negative) once in the right axis, so you have a %50 chance of getting it right.

 

Now some of you might say just put it in perspective view to see which way the z is going. But if any of you have ever tried this, you'll know that also flips your rotate about axis (the white representation) and things just get worse from there.

 

I have been meaning to submit this error to MC but really forgot about why I wasn't rotating my wcs' anymore until this thread came up. If somebody can prove me wrong, please do and tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can smack my forehead real hard on the desk and say DOH!

 

 

I love the new WCS in MC and would hate to not have it anymore. I do agree that for someone trying to learn them it can be real confusing. I had worked with wcs' in other systems proficiently(sp?)before it was implemented into MC and when I first tried out the MC WCS I was confused as *#@^! Couple of clicks and some trial and error later and there's not a job I don't use it on anymore.

 

 

Zero teh Move the part? Now why the hell would you want to do that?

 

[ 06-05-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Zero ]

[Alias]

What's so confusing about the WCS? Define the view, use the view. How tough is that?

[mayday]

here's tricky:

horz 4 axis. set up multi cplanes or wcs, front, side, back, left, and maybe some odd angles. now in your t/c plane switch wcs is checked t/p plane is unchecked. every side flips to top and at least my post (mpmaster) does not output b axis positions. uncheck wsc and use t/cplane and post works. also toolbar buttons for gview are always top. not the case when running horz machine.

I rest my head. it hurts now

[Alias]

When WCS is checked under the Tplane/Cplane parameters my tplane and cplane checkboxes are forced checked on and disabled so I can't uncheck them.

 

How'd you do that ?

[Rekd™]

quote:

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What's so confusing about the WCS? Define the view, use the view. How tough is that?

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quote:

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When WCS is checked under the Tplane/Cplane parameters my tplane and cplane checkboxes are forced checked on and disabled so I can't uncheck them.

 

How'd you do that ?

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It's not that tough... figure it out.

 

'Rekd teh Don't be so humble, you're not that great

[Chris Rizzo]

Ezra,

I think I know what your talking about. When trying to flip my x and y axis about z.. There is a 50/50 chance that it is going to come out the proper way. If you hit "NEXT" the graphics gets all F@$#ed up, and you can't tell which way your z is going...right? Well, at least that's what I've experienced.

 

Everyone else,

When I am creating a new view, I will actually draw the axis I desire on my drawing...just a couple of short lines labeled x,y and z.

Then go into the WCS manager...

> right click on System View 1

> create

> select menu

> ENTITY

Then select the labeled lines that you just drew, X first then Y. If Z is'nt in the right direction, hit "next".

Be sure to label the view, so you can find it! Oh, this way you can also re-set your origin for that particular view, since is is a user-defined view....

good luck

[Roger Peterson]

Guys(and gals), you're working too hard at this. There is a tutorial at mastercam.com in the current downloads sections called WCS-ViewMgrTutorial.zip. This tutorial has a graphic pdf or doc file along with some sample files. From what I have heard it does an excellent job at explaining the wcs and all of it's different uses, I.E. multiple setups, horizontal tombstone, 5 axis positioning. For 99% of toolpaths do the following:

 

to create a view:

1) Always pick 2 lines that define x+ and y+ even if you have to create geometry. The first line you pick will define the x axis. This will give the view reference geometry, if you move or rotate your part your view will follow.

 

2) Do not use surfaces, or arc's or normal to a line. Surface normals can be flipped, an arc can be moved to a parralell plane flipping your z, and a line does not have anything to define x and y orientation when moved.

 

3) there is a bug that rotates your dynamic view back to top when you create views using the select menu. Be in a standard view before going into the wcs and once in the graphics view ready to pick your geo. then dynamically rotate your part.

 

multiple setups in a 3 axis machine:

1) tplane and cplane always = top

2) Set WCS to desired view to machine

 

 

4 and 5 axis positioning

1) WCS always = top

2) set tplane and cplane to desired view to machine-this will output correct rotational values providing post is setup correctly.

 

 

I hope this helps, if you follow these few simple rules you won't beleive you "had" to do it the old way weather that was copying geometry to multiple levels or using named views...

 

[ 06-05-2003, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Roger Peterson ]

[kathy]

In most CAD/CAM systems there is a World/default coordinate system, and the User defined coordinate systems. The user coordinated axis can be defined by location (x,y,z coordinates) and an orientation (x,y,z angles).

I have stated over and over again that the lack of angle orientation definition is where Mastercam falls flat again and again. The addition of the C’Planes/T’Planes can be very confusing. But if your part is a rectangle without angled faces you can use the present Mastercam system by understanding the view #1-6 are pre-defined to correspond to the standard faces.

 

How you use the WCS/C'Planes/T'Planes depends on your machine setups for you part. If you are using a rotary machine, the previous explanations are very useful.

 

If you physically rotate the part over at the machine and you want to run tool path on two (or more) different faces within the same Mastercam file - Well this is how I do it. (my programming scenario 90%of the time).

 

I define a WCS by copying the 'Top Plane (#1) and name it 'SETUP A'. This WSC can be located at X0,Y0 or at other coordinates depending on the stock and/or print criteria. The face that I will machine first with 'SETUP A' is seating in the X,Y plane and normal to the Z axis. All of the required tool path for this face is assigned to WCS 'SETUP A' and the T/C planes are set to Top, 0,0,0.

To machine the 'Bottom' of the part (180 degrees from the initial machined face) 99.9% of the time I will flip or rotate the part over the Y Axis. So I go into the View Manager, double click V#4 bottom view to set it active. Than I copy that View and name it 'SETUP B'. I set the x,y,z coordinates to the reference geometry on my part (say tooling holes) to located the axis. All of the machining for that face is assigned to the 'SETUP B' WCS.

 

If you want to flip the part over the x axis – that takes just a little more work and will be tomorrow’s lesson.

 

I will be more than happy to post a simple file to the ftp that illustrates this method.

 

Kathy

[TeccBoxx]

quote:

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Guys(and gals), you're working too hard at this. There is a tutorial at mastercam.com in the current downloads sections called WCS-ViewMgrTutorial.zip. This tutorial has a graphic pdf or doc file along with some sample files. From what I have heard it does an excellent job at explaining the wcs and all of it's different uses, I.E. multiple setups, horizontal tombstone, 5 axis positioning. For 99% of toolpaths do the following:

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Thanks Roger I never knew there was a tutorial. I just downloaded it and it offered a lot of great information. Wow I would of paid $1 million for some of the info. Thanks a bunch for the information.

[Hardmill]

Its actually a great feature, when you get it

figured out. I created a solid and extruded bosses out of it in all directions, then created WCS's all over it. It gave me a good

understanding of how to really make it work.

 

You'll wonder where its been all your life

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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I prefer to manually rotate the part to another level.

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EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I use the WCS ALL the time and it is tremendous. I HATE going back to V8 and using Named Views. Soooooooo tedious.

 

Anyway, to program for horizontals using WCS, draw part how it sits in the machine. Top VIEW (not necessarrily View #1 in the WCS) is B0. To get MC to kick out my rotary code, you change your T/C Plane then create your toolpath. DO NOT create a new WCS and put your toolpath there. That will not give you indexes. The key is in the T/C Planes. I've found it best to use/create lines to represent your X+ and Y+ directions. Surfaces and Arcs have given me dome trouble on ooccasion whereas lines have never been an issue.

 

Get the WCS Tutorial and spend some time with it. It will be well worth it.

 

BTW I NEVER "physically rotate my geometry, wherever it is, it is, I leave it alone, create WCS's and machine around the part having all operations in one file. Works like a charm. I don't believe I posess above average intelligence and it has not been difficult implementing the new WCS into my programming routine.

[Thad]

I'm fairly new at using WCS also, but I find it pretty easy. I never used the old T/C Planes method. Keep in mind that what you are familiar with *usually* seems easier when learning something new. I also don't use any special WCS, just the 6 sides of a rectangle.

 

We get wireframe or surfaces that makeup the part. If there is machining on the back side, change the WCS to back and cut it. If their is machining on the right side, change the WCS to the right and cut it. That's how easy it is for us. I realize that some do fancier work.

 

My only problems with WCS is how it functions with other features in MC. You can't verify to an STL, it screws up how your select your stock in verify, the viewport don't show properly.

 

 

quote:

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3) there is a bug that rotates your dynamic view back to top when you create views using the select menu. Be in a standard view before going into the wcs and once in the graphics view ready to pick your geo. then dynamically rotate your part.

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Roger, does this fix that problem? Screen/Configure/Screen tab and check "Use 'Free' mode in Dynamic Spin."

 

Thad

[Roger Peterson]

Tazzer, no problem I'm glad it helped.

 

 

Thad, that is what I have mine set to by default. Try it on yours, do a dynamic rotate then go into your wcs and do a create > select > entity and your view will flip to top.