integrex \ mazak programmers

[mayday]

quote:

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Mazaks are often run in job shops, where highly skilled and independent people program and run their own parts.

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+10 to Peter

thats the enviornment I've worked in for 20 yrs.

Mazaks do have there place in the world.

What do they do when programing at the control??

run parts. you see its simple. run parts and program the next job on the floor. then the next etc....

[cg777]

i can see we where busy beavers on this forum over the weekend,

 

once again "thanks for the info and leads on integrex mazatrol)

 

i read all that was posted, and i have to agree with my friend in canada, peter. well said.

[chris m]

Universal truth #6,897,455,412:

 

All Integrex threads turn into highjacked flame wars

 

 

This one ain't NEARLY as good as Andrew and Peter going at it last year, though...

 

 

C

[cg777]

well, i cracked open the mazak programming manual.

my boss wants me to learn the programming @ the machine as well as at the pc. i can understand why. there r a lot of programs already in place that have been done @ the machine. did i mention we have 55 mazak machining centers.i need to be able to support the setoperators at the machines as well as i design and program on cad cam.

 

i guess when all is said and done, i'll have that many more tools in my pocket.

[mayday]

You will find there are things Mastercam does you wish mazatrol did and things mazatrol does that mastercam don't. I'll guaranty it

[chris m]

Yeah, I'd say with 55 Mazaks you definitely will be needing the Mazatrol knowledge. I wish you well with the Integrex; as I said we have had a bad experience, but I know that there are many guys out here that'll be able to help you.

 

C

[cg777]

can these forums be addictive?

[mayday]

use it all you want

just dont inhale

[Harryman]

Good morning cg777,

 

The Harryman was off to a leadership conference Thursday and Friday...Boy did I get in on this thread late.

 

Some of the people that jumped aboard the Integrex band wagon early on have taken a serious beating. Emotions can run very high as Andrew was alluding. Throw in the Mazatrol debate and things can get cranked up even more.

 

Does your company already own the Integrex?

 

Do you have any lathe experience? That is to say on a lathe not MC Lathe.

 

MC ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT SUPPORT MAZATROL. That is to say you can not get MC to output Mazatrol code. There are other CAM systems that say they do. I have no experience with them.

 

The Integrex is complex enough that one cannot just say that one has or doesn't have a post processor. The machines tool and offset calling can be handled a couple different ways. Chip break drill pecking is provided for, by Mazak, as the same G83 as retract pecking and you must alter a machine parameter to choose. These are just two of many examples of decisions you need to make with knowlege a beginner (to integrex) can't have; and are just two of the stumbling blocks that have cost us early Integrexers dearly.

 

Dave Thompson has been working on our post and it looks very good. I have a ton of machining and custom macro experience but am green in MC. I have not been able to test every possible option that MC provides. Dave is unparalleled in willingness and knowlege to get the post working.

 

The learning curve on the Integrex is daunting. Anyone who say's it's easy doesn't know it deeply. Do not expect easy success training non-english speaking operators.

 

Put your energy into CAM programming rather than Mazatrol for anything other than basic work. This option was not available to me; I had the machine 8 months before Mazak told me the M610 code to invert the mill spindle and about a year before they disclosed the four digit tool call suffix.

 

Hire one of us that know the beast to help you through the minefields of methods and parameters. Even if the best post processor in the world landed on your desk you're far from turning a key and making parts.

 

Profitability with the Integrex is like the performance envelope of an aircraft; all factors must be considered. For example, quantity of parts. A part might have the physical characterisics of a perfect Integrex part, but if the production quantities are too low or too high, you might be able to make them more profitably another way.

 

More later, Harry

[Harryman]

I type slow, and I see you answered some of my questions.

 

Good luck following what someone else has set up.

 

One more thing. Prayer beats rum for the problems that are comming your way... I've tried both.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Harryman sez...

quote:

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MC ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT SUPPORT MAZATROL.

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Cough, cough, Mazatrol in Mastercam cough, cough.

 

Guess I must've been halucinating...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

BTW Harryman, when you make an absolute statement like that in here, you better be right because if you're not, some of the members in here will be all over you like a cheap suit.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[crazy^millman]

Now I would love to see one person program in Mastercam Alone for all of the 55 Mazak's they have. I would love to see you be able to have every machine ready from production and job shop capabilites at once.

 

I will leave it at that and let the knowledge people point the person that is soooooo out of the process in the right direction. (this is no way in meant as a perosnal dig or in anway calling my abilites in question)that being me.

 

Have a good day all

 

Crazy Millman

 

[ 08-11-2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Millman^crazy ]

[cg777]

harryman, welcome back.

yes we have 8 integrex machines and the only lathe experience (cadcam)i have,is in unigraphics.

thanks for your input and the reality of what i'm up against. i feel a lot more comfortable knowing that this forum is here to assist me in the journey to hell and back.

[Harryman]

James, thanks for your kind enlightenment.

 

You have correctly caught me saying something ABSOLUTELY WRONG! I'm very embarassed

 

A slightly less absolute statement: This would be a level of Mazatrol, and Mastercam expertise that I would not invest in (for the Integrex). Go with Mastercam and a good post from Dave to get clean code. There will be too many limitations if one writes from a good CAM system into a Mazatrol manual unit (for the Integrex).

 

Harry

[cg777]

millman^crazy,

i just started here a week ago,

these machines where up and running before i got here. they have about 4 talented mazatrol programmers here that do very well at programming the mazatrol mach. except the parts here r more complex than you think. and therfore it takes these guys sometimes weeks to finish a prog.

(that makes a good parts)as far as cadcam goes,

they r fish out of water, there is one man here that does 3d machining on surfcam, but again it takes him a long time, especially on 5 axis machines.

 

so they hired me and purchased mc to help in the eia programming. but the job will consist of much more than that when it comes to intregrex.

[crazy^millman]

Yeah cg777 when it come to the complex item Mazatrol is not the way to go. I had the same problem in every shop I have been in with Mazak's.

 

The company you are with is doing the right thing. I am not bashing surfcam but found for the 5 axis operation that I did that Mastercam was every good and easy to understand when it came to doing things. I think Charles Davis in other posting talked about a New book out for doing 5 axis Machining. I would recommend in greatly to help in the transition from what you knew to what you are learning.

 

I have to say I would love to be in your position right now even though some might think I am crazy for saying it. I have not ran the intrgrex's so dont know how they comapre to the Standard Mazak Mill and Lathes but would love the chance to see. I have gone back to the Beginning in the Forum and looked over the pages for all 177 hitting all the highs to this point. There is alot of great advice and people on here that can point you in the right direction. I would trust in my Mazatrol Guys to help. If you start off in that they are only good enough to operate the machines as it has been mentioned I think you will have an uphill battle on your hands. It would be great if the world was a great big Vaccum in which everything went perfect but it is not and trust in yourself and the people around you and you will do fine.

 

I dont know your background but just a little Advice make yourself a book on every type of machine. I at this point have my own made books for a Haas, Fadal, Okuma, Hyundia lathe, Mazak Lathe & mill, Star Swiss Screw Machine, Sodick 4 axis Wire, Thermwood 5 axis Router and Mastercam just for reference when I need it. When I forgot something they have been a big help. I guess all that grey hair is catching up with me.

 

Good Luck and May the MC force be with you.

 

Crazy Millman

 

[ 08-11-2003, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Millman^crazy ]

[Harryman]

http://www.camaix.com/English/Mazak/mazak.htm

 

quote:

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Q: Does the Mazak post support the Mazak M640 Fusion controller?

 

A: Yes,...We don't support the Mill-Turn post processor which combines both Mill and Turn controls as MT (Integrex)

 

---

Harryman may have been sort of correct. But I do not retract my apology.

 

There may be one absolute regarding the Integrex: if you touch this thing with a ten foot pole you will sometimes look very stupid, and if you're confident enough to absorb the first blows of stupidity and move on...there will be more.

 

Harry

[cg777]

the more i research this s__T, the more i wonder what i got my self into.

 

i started this thread, so i'm asking this plane and simple question.

 

can i sit down behind MC and toolpath a complex part for integrex and post the damn thing. then produce a part?

 

iv'e been told that mc does not support this.

mc says they do and have video that they supposably sent last tuesday have i got it NO

iv'e been told i need certain posts,

supposably camaix works other say no

i hate mazak but am willing to learn it.

it's just this integrex sh__ is stumping me.

 

so i'm left with my own thoughts, that these machines should be programmed at the machine tool.

except for 3d machining and complex contours,

 

am i on the right track?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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can i sit down behind MC and toolpath a complex part for integrex and post the damn thing. then produce a part?

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In short, yes. Dave has an outstanding post from what I hear, also, I'm programmed an Integrex for one particular part and it worked great with the post that the fine group in SoCal ( CAD-CAM Consulting ) came up with.

[cg777]

what do need to do to get this post

[cg777]

james,

 

thanks for the reply,

i have read your last threads in retospect to integrex

[crazy^millman]

I also want to thank you James I looked at the same product over a year ago and wondered if it would work. I hope you can hang in there cg777 sounds like you got some good advice.

 

Good luck

 

Crazy Millman

[chris m]

quote:

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In short, yes

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I'd like to add a caveat to that

 

2, actually

 

1) Make sure that you understand what the capabilities of the machine ACTUALLY ARE before you start thinking you're going to dive in and start banging out parts with B axis interp moves OR very tight size tolerances OR very close relationships spindle-to-spindle (assuming you have a twin,that is). Some things the machine simply will not do. I know that Mastercam is not the major issue here, but it does bear on your "can I make a part?" question.

 

2) There are certain parts, just ask Mr. McRae up there in Canada or some guys in a shop down near me, that Mastercam and the Integrex simply do not work that well on right now. These parts are probably not the type of stuff you're doing, but you never know...

 

C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

+1 to Chris,

 

To get the post, you need to contact your local Reseller and have them contact In-House Solutions for it. I don't know the pricing situation and if I did I'd still refer you to your reseller.

 

I try to help as much as I can. I kinda like this place.