integrex \ mazak programmers

[cg777]

i have recently changed jobs (and i do mean recently),and have been programming for quite some time. mastercam has been quite the best software i used in the past.

but i have been on ug for the past two years. v8 mc is where i left off. well, this place i'm at now has all mazak machines, this is a new world of programming(MAZATROL)and machining(INTEGREX)

to me. according to my sales man, mc fully supports integrex and native mazatrol language.

 

if anyone on the forum is using mastercam with these wonderful products, could you tell me how you like programming with mastercam(integrex style)and how long it takes to program efficiently

combining lathe and mill to produce parts.

 

i have never used lathe, plan on taking a class soon.

 

in shytown

[Rekd™]

Welcome, cg.

 

I remember seeing a few topics covering mazaks and mastercam. Do a search you should find some good stuff.

 

'Rekd

[mayday]

We have been using Camiax mazatrol posts for some time now. Im not saying its perfect but it gets the job done. they are still in the improvment stages. we have 7 Mazaks. much of the prog. is done by the operators until the work requirs 3d or all we have is solid models. it is worth checking into with your reseller

[McRae]

Harryman, Chris, Jack, PartFactory...

 

Buddy - you have just opened the flood gates of hell, prepare to be inundated with all things negative and what is wrong in the world today.

 

1st - Your dealer blatently lied. Mastercam is not drop dead compatable with Mazatrol...

 

Do not program the Integrex using Mazatrol either - use EIA, it will give you the flexability you need to drive that puppy.

 

Next get Dave Thompson's Integrex post - this thing works with M/C and will make money for your plant.

 

Third - This is a really tough machine to make productive, the learning curve as published by Mazak is at least 6 months before you understand how the machine needs to function. Get Factory Training on the operation of the machine.

 

Good luck and post often, we have bled already and can offer pitfal avoidance advice so welcome aboard.

[chris m]

As a major Mazak Integrex basher I'm gonna stay out of this, but here are some of the threads the search turns up:

 

Integrex Post Processors

 

Integrex

 

Mazak 300Y

 

 

That ought to at least get you started; and you can learn who the players are.

 

Some real flame wars in the past threads...

 

 

C

[mayday]

quote:

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use EIA, it will give you the flexability you need to drive that puppy.

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+1 Andrew

 

its the way go Mazaks gobble of fanuc code like a mouse in a vending machine

[crazy^millman]

I did it the way fall guy is talking about. I would do all of my complex 3d operations in mastercam using Mazatol Tool setting keeping my parameters set so that I didnt have to have it done 2 times. I like the tool page over the HAAS and Fadal and with the tooleye like a freaking dream changing parts from one to the other.

 

I ask this question about any machine out there. Is there any of them that are so perfect that everyone that has ran them loves them. I would take things from the star screw machine, sodick wire, okuma lathe & mill,Tree Mill, Mazak lathe & mill, Maho combination mill, HAAS lathe & Mill, Fadal Mill, and 5 axis Thermwood and make a machine that I would problay still not like thing about it.

 

It is the ability to take what you got and make it work is what we are all good at.

 

I think if you have experience on Mazak's that 6 months curve goes out the window. I am not saying you will be 100% but like anything who really know it all I learn shi? about this profession every day. Even from people who sweep the floors if I take the time and listen.

 

Oh yeah take a Mazak Intregrex any day of the week if someone want to give me one. Back in the day before I had mastercam use to do all my 3d part using only mazatrol and Autocad.

 

Walk the walk and talk the talk. I got to get that left from from tripping me up and got to learn me some of the fancy words and be right there.

 

Yeah old Crazy Millman in the White Truck Being taken away today right knowwwwwwwwwwww

[cg777]

thanks to all that replied so far,

that was pretty cool.

 

fall-guy, i plan on turning this shop into an EIA

shop if i can, but i do see the power and speed the mazatrol has. it's just that i was born in the m&g code world.

 

i'm new to this forum and want to tell you all that this has made my day, except for the one who wrote i just opened the gates of hell...

that's because the truth hurts some time..

i know i'm in for a major learning curv but thats

what keeps us comming back.. right????

 

i was reading the stories between programmers and shop operators, i was laughing my _ss off.

 

i shouldn't have to worry to much here though,80%

of these guys here can't speek english.

 

they r pretty good at that mazatrol sh__t though.

some of these part real complex.

 

i just got a 21 inch flat screen today, u guys have got to get one if u don't already.

[Mito@DeeringBanjos]

Everyone is right on.If using MasterCam U need the EIA option.If not using MasterCam program with Mazatrol.Once you get the hang of mazatrol you will love it,and the factory training is wonderfull.

[chris m]

quote:

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except for the one who wrote i just opened the gates of hell

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Andrew takes some getting used to, but he is right on the money. He has had some major problems with his machines up there (as we've had with ours) so he knows what he's talking about, not just some guy who doesn't even know what an Integrex is saying "Mazaks rock" or "Mazaks suck". There are quite a few Mazak-smart guys on this forum and several that are very proficient with the Integrex so I'm sure that you'll get some quality input on any specific problem you have with the machine or the Mastercam / machine relationship. If you go to the forum search feature and use 'Integrex' as your keyword you will turn up some pretty good threads (more than those I linked above). You may want to write some names / emails down from the threads we had in the last year as you're probably going to need them...

 

C

 

quote:

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the factory training is wonderful

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I KNOW that has to be sarcasm; if not, you had a VERY different experience than us

 

C

 

[ 08-09-2003, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Trevor Bailey]

As Mito, I went to the training facility in LA, CA a few times for different machines. Those guys were great. I love Mazaks and I am also a fan of Mazatrol. If you do not have the option of on off-line system as MC, then Mazaks with Mazatrol is the way to go. If you have MC, I would not even think about using Mazatrol except for the sole purpose of letting the operators use it for setups so that you do not have to program soft-jaw programs.

[crazy^millman]

Trevor I would have to disagree. If you limit the ablitiy of the shop to the idea that only one system will work you are not letting the company use its resourses and you will dampen any idea that the employees that can contribute the process and are know no good to the company. Mazak's With Mazatrol make it easier to do the routine processes that make it a profitable machining center. It is the ability of doing the operations that can be easily done that make it easier on a programmer when he has not go to program all things tht come through the door. I did alot of my programs with an intregation of Mazatrol and Mastercam to do the parts that needed to be done and will put a knowlegdeable operator on Mazak's with A programmer of any CAM program aganist a solely EIA concept.

 

In today market place the ability of a company to get the product out the door has to always be the most important focus. I love Mastercam and what it allows me to do but I will put Mazatrol for opertions that are easliy done and helpful against any an EIA process.

 

I will give you a typical case and you give me a time to get the machine running doing it only EIA or doing both. You have a customer that want a plate machine flat that is Aluminum it is 12" x 14". They would like a 1" wide X 1/2" deep step around the outside. Then they would like 20 holes along the edge 1/2" from the outside. Then they would like a 1/2" deep pocket being a rectangle 4" x 6" with 3/4" radius in 2 of the corners. I could have this programmed on a MAZAK MIll with Mazatrol in less than 3 mintues and be up and running in less than 15. Now here is the kicker the customer calls you as you are about to get started and want you to make it 1/2 Deep(Deeper) on the step and pocket and add some tap holes.

2 mintues later I am going to the machine with Mazatrol. So tell me after you get the program back up in Mastercam Regen the toolpaths repost the program and then get it to the operator which has got the product out the door quicker.

 

I understand you hve to always worry about operators but if you dont put faith in the employess you have working for you then why are you in business cause one person can not do it alone.

 

Crazy Millman

 

[ 08-10-2003, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Millman^crazy ]

[crazy^millman]

cg777 I ask you this do you speak there language just becuse they dont speak your language does not make them stupid and if think it you act like it. We are teaching our kids to speak in 3 languages how about you take the time to learn their languages if you want to make it go well.

 

One of the best hardest working guys I ever worked with was from Russia could speak only small amount of english but learned all about doing things cuase I took the time to listen and see not think different of him for his lack of english ability.

 

Yeah I nkow I am going to get bombared for saying the things i have said today oh well.

 

Crazy Millman

 

[ 08-10-2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Millman^crazy ]

[Trevor Bailey]

Not to start a flame war with you either, but you are soooo in the dark on processes. That is my own opinion of course. I do not know how long in trade you have, but I will stand by my first statement. Just by the description of the machining factor you gave above, I do not think that you fully understand and know how to utilize MC to the fullest.

 

Good luck with your ideas.

[crazy^millman]

Well I will be sure to tell the Last 4 companies espically the one I am with that.

 

_________________________________________________

but you are soooo in the dark on processes.

_________________________________________________

 

I will also take my 17 years of doing this and throw that out the window also. I also guess that over $40,000 worth of Machinist Tools will do me no good also.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right Direction Trevor!

 

But you still didn't answer my question.

 

Crazy Millman

[Trevor Bailey]

Looks as though I have busted someone's ego, so I gracefully pull out of this one.

 

Crazy Millman

[crazy^millman]

There are some funny people on here. Treavor you are probaly the funniest.

 

quote:

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If you have MC, I would not even think about using Mazatrol except for the sole purpose of letting the operators use it for setups so that you do not have to program soft-jaw programs.

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Shows your aggorance and lack of looking as everyone as equals.

 

quote:

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Not to start a flame war with you either, but you are soooo in the dark on processes.

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quote:

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Looks as though I have busted someone's ego, so I gracefully pull out of this one.

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quote:

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Just by the description of the machining factor you gave above, I do not think that you fully understand and know how to utilize MC to the fullest.

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If I knew everything there was to know about Mastercam why would I be on here.

 

quote:

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Good luck with your ideas.

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I would think with such statments you would atleast know the person you are talking to and have an idea of the things and jobs that they have accomplished.

 

My statement:

quote:

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Trevor I would have to disagree.

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Was not directed at you personally.

 

If you were a person that repsented my company selling this software you would be very careful how you handled yourself espically when I could be a customer of yours one day. I am from the east coast and came to the west coast to fill some very big shoes of someone you know very well. I feel I am holding my own but realize I am not the Modelmaker he is.

 

My ego is very much in tack and over reacted to your statement and Man enough to leave what I said up there. I will gladly have the Machining ideas I have learned and seen implented over the years retaught to me cause I like learning new things and like new ideas they are what keep people sharp.

 

Crazy Millman

 

[ 08-10-2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Millman^crazy ]

[Trevor Bailey]

OK, OK. Lets see what happens and how high the flames can get, because you have obviously proven that YOU are smartest, most brilliant machinist and MC user that has ever walked the face of the earth. I salute you sure. What was I thinking about when I posted my own feeling/experience on the matter. Why have I never ran my shops the way that you do by thinking that everyone should be treated as equals. PLEASE GOD, have pity on my sole and thanks to whatever this particulars guy name is for showing me what a worthless person I have become.

 

DUDE, if you can not handle a little razzing, then you need to go elsewhere. Maybe somewhere that when you walk down the isles of the shop floor, everyone in eye-shot will bow at your feet.

 

You, by far, are the funniest person in the forum to date now. Just make sure that you stick around. I am sure that you have sooooo much to offer all machinist world-wide.

 

Never, ever step on someone's toes for stating a personnal experience and work habit without being able to take a blow on the chin every now and then.

 

All in all, to this point anyway, I have enjoyed reading what you have posted. Once again, if you take any of this personal, you are in the wrong place.

[crazy^millman]

Thank you Treavor,

 

Have a good day.

 

 

P.S. I am not going anywhere like what I do and like the ideas people give me on here even you.

 

 

_________________________________________________

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

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So tell me after you get the program back up in Mastercam Regen the toolpaths repost the program and then get it to the operator which has got the product out the door quicker.

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What is the machine doing while you are writing your programs in the control?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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What is the machine doing while you are writing your programs in the control?

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ROFL!!!!!! Ooooooo, Ooooooooo, I know, I know, pick me, I know, I knoow!!!!!!!! Pick Me, Pick Me.

 

I've watched this thread for a coupls of days and it's been the blood bath I imagined it would be.

 

Some things to consider with regards to "Online" vs. "Offline" debate; Traceability, Most Currrent Revisions,

quote:

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What is the machine doing while you are writing your programs in the control?

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, Portability, Flexability, etc... ad infinitum.

 

Just some things to think about.

[PE @ IHS]

As a former user of Mazatrol (and someone who knows it quite well), I am of the opinion that the prime reason it is still much used and loved is because it keeps decision making at the machine.

 

Mazaks are often run in job shops, where highly skilled and independent people program and run their own parts. They want a drawing, some tooling, and a paycheque. (Check for the Yanks). Other than that, they want to be left alone to work. They do not want a programmer, a setup sheet, or a guy in the office deciding on a depth of cut or grade of insert.

 

Do I think Mastercam is the more effective way of programming these machines? Absolutely. The trick is to give enough control to the guys on the machines so that they don't feel like button pushers. That is difficult to do if you don't get to do your own programming. The reason the Mazatrol crowd resists CAM software is simply a fear of losing control to a programmer in the office, and losing prestige, pay, and job satisfaction.

 

Running a CAM system is far better for the company financially. Doing your own programming on the machine instead of someone handing it to you is more satisfying to the shop guys, those who want to feel like machinists rather than operators.

 

Can't please them all.....

[cadcam]

Just so you know the mazak office for Ca is around the corner from my day job at this time.

And guess what was happening there all week.

 

Dave from CNC was there all week teaching mastercam to the crew over there so they can program ther machines with Guess what MASTERCAM..

 

Just thoght I would let you guys And gales know.

[crazy^millman]

I need to go back to that Damn College english and then I guess I will make some sense. I in my comment eariler in the post was ment to mean the operator who can program the machine and referring to the fact that if someone is good at programming the Mazatrol then the can do these tasks while you the programmer can be doing something that is more productive to the comapany which will be towards the bottom line. I stand corrected in my lack of the use of the english language propely.

 

If we went into Traceability, Most Current Revisions of Prints, , Portability, Flexability, etc... and infinitum think some of you could write books. If no one in this Forum doesn't have a horror story I would be very suprised.

 

But I will say this you were all that operators, appertinces, guys sweeping the floor, people that had to learn the lessons and you just didnt start in this where you are now. I am gald that people took chances on me. I will gladly take chanes on other people. Has it bit me on the xxxx yeah will it problay bite me on the xxxx agian yeah. I know alot of you have alot of different experiecne and more types than I have but I am not the stupid that I have been made out to be.

 

Life is always what you make it and you are deault lemon make lemonade.

 

Crazy Millman

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

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I need to go back to that Damn College english and then I guess I will make some sense. I in my comment eariler in the post was ment to mean the operator who can program the machine and referring to the fact that if someone is good at programming the Mazatrol then the can do these tasks while you the programmer can be doing something that is more productive to the comapany which will be towards the bottom line. I stand corrected in my lack of the use of the english language propely.

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I think the point that Trevor was trying to make is that making chips is what the bottom line is all about. Online programming ties up the machine, and idle machiens don't make money. Mazatrol may be a wonderfully quick way to program on-line, but it still requires non-productive idle time to sort the programs out, and that time is, in general, more profitably spent making chips.

 

As for the language bit: There are a lot of eduacted buffoons who use the language well. There are also a lot of highly skilled tradespeople who cannot put together a coherent written sentance. Judging someone's skill in their trade based on thier skill with language is as silly as judging someone's value as a person based on the labels on thier clothing.

 

quote:

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I know alot of you have alot of different experiecne and more types than I have but I am not the stupid that I have been made out to be.

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Looking back over the posts, I don't see anyone calling you stupid. Nor do I have that impression of you.