g code backplotters

[left coast lefty]

I have been given the OK to buy a g code backplotter. I tried the Cimco Edit V6 awhile back, and it seemed to work OK except it had issues with horizontal work. Was that just the demo, or is that a real problem? I just downloaded a demo of NCplot which I haven't had a chance to investigate much, but it looks like it's about half the cost of the Cimco. Can anyone shed some light here?

 

Thanks in advance.

[mayday]

We have editNC. works good. It as an excellent editor.

backplots lathe mill and wire

[Newbeeee™]

We run NCPlot which we really like. V good value for money and can handle macros (not that we use them) and sub progs.

We looked at cimco and it is better becuase it can solid backplot, but can't handle subs (unless it can now?).

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Second for NCPlot. Will do lathe and mill, horizontal and vertical, subs, macros, standard and extended work offsets, etc. I do use macros and I use NCPlot to test them. The author is also really good about answering questions and making sure your needs are met. Free trial license on their site.

[Newbeeee™]

^^^ yes, +1000 for Scott. He added a ton of stuff we asked to be implemented.

[left coast lefty]

^^^ yes, +1000 for Scott. He added a ton of stuff we asked to be implemented.

 

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen!

 

What kind of "stuff", newbeeee?

[Newbeeee™]

Tool tracking on backplotting - so you can have T1H1D1 visible in the plot window when backplotting to check your h+d's match.

Autocad style zoom in and out and pan (so middle button hold down and pan l to r, and wheverever the pointer is, scroll in or out and the view zooms from the pointer + double click = zoom extents

Config save/export function to encompass more settings for migration to new version

Rapid colour asigned as a global red, when asigning different tool colours to different tools - also view fade so when backplotting, you're seeing the current tool a lot brighter than the previous tools (which are in different colours)

I'm sure there is more...

 

He's working on a solid verify option...it was in early stages a couple of years ago. I asked to beta test but it wasn't ready then, but don't know when this would be available.

Scott is very active on cnczone - you can get a good feel for how he works there.

HTH

[robk]

Let me suggest Inplot from http://i-logic.com/

Even supports twin turret turning verification.

[Watcher]

Cimco has the best looking but I think they're behind in technology. Even a small company like i-logic is offering more for the value. Turning in CIMCO-Edit is the same for nearly a decade.

 

Yes, they are limited with horizontals... we've to deal with problems in this area and the developers already told us they won't fix it... Haas VMCs are more profitable I guess...

 

<rant /on>

 

We have 25 seats of Cimco-Edit here, 10 of them are the professional version. I've been told for several months that they will put more R&D into it but looks like part of our maintenance $$$ for CIMCO-Edit is going somewhere else... Too bad... they have the right people and a very solid code... but are in the confort zone with one of their best products - CIMCO-Edit.

 

And I have told this to them many times, so no problem in ranting I think...

 

<rant /off>

 

Everytime I visit the list of NCPlot functionalities I'm just jealous... Many people including myself have been asking CIMCO for some things there for years to no avail...

 

If they had the excellent DNC and PDM integration that CIMCO does with DNC-Max / NC-Base I would not hesitate to buy a few seats...

 

Looking at their functionality list, I can list things NCPlot does that CIMCO-Edit does not:

• Automatic updating of when renumbering:
  
  • Macro GOTO references
    
  • M98 H_ references (for controls that support this)
    
  • M97 P_ references (for HAAS style subprograms)
    
  • Lathe G70 - G73 "Q" and "P" addresses
    

  [*]MultiStep Translate makes multiple copies of part features while applying translations, eliminating tedious copy and pasting

  [*]Convert coordinates between absolute and incremental commands

  [*]Address Replace: Good for changing axis names, A to B, etc.

  [*]Address Remove: Unnecessary addresses and their values can be removed

  [*]Address Swap: Exchange any two program addresses

  [*]Convert absolute I / J / K arc center coordinates to or from incremental I / J / K

  [*]Convert R specified arcs to or from I / J / K specified arcs

  [*]Break arcs at quadrants or into a series of line segments

  [*]Supports 3Dconnexion devices such as the SpaceNavigator™, SpacePilot™ and SpaceExplorer™

  [*]Select entities on the viewport to quickly calculate offsets, blend arcs and find intersection points

  [*]Macro Debugging: Step by step execution of macro programs allows you to watch program variables as the program is executed

  [*]Macro Expression Calculator: This built-in calculator accepts expressions written in Custom Macro B format. This tool can also be used to view or set variable values.

  [*]Support for VBScripting

If you are looking for a NC program editor only, NCPlot looks very good IMHO. For turning toolpaths, Inplot from http://i-logic.com/ looks better I think.

 

JM2C

[Watcher]

We run NCPlot which we really like. V good value for money and can handle macros (not that we use them) and sub progs.

We looked at cimco and it is better becuase it can solid backplot, but can't handle subs (unless it can now?).

 

The Solid backplot in CIMCO-Edit is very limited... it does not work with 3+2 toolpaths, only 3x in a single orientation, but they allow you to upload a piece of STL and plot the wireframe motions over it... including 5 axis ones... (With some limitations because of some flaws in their code - MillTurns are one of those... specially Mazaks...)

 

Sub-programs in CIMCO-Edit are handled now for a few controls (FANUC) I think... so in the end, their only real advantage over NCPlot is the ability to load STLs... I think NCPlot is better or equally capable in almost anything else...

[RaiderX]

Dont think this has the functionality you are looking for but I have been using discriminator for years. you prob cant beat the price but does have limits and or I just havent spent the time to set it up to full potential. I know it will do more than what I use it for (quik ref and editing).

[Newbeeee™]

Daniel - it maybe worth you dropping Scott an email to ask what he has planned and timeframes etc?

[Watcher]

Daniel - it maybe worth you dropping Scott an email to ask what he has planned and timeframes etc?

 

I think NCPlot would have to put a ton of development to come up with a PDM right now... NC-Base efficiency is result of years of experience and customer driven R&D... In regards DNC, although there are many tools out there too, I highly doubt they have the same capabilities of DNC-Max... maybe Predator and CIMNET are not so far, but definetely they don't offer some great small tools that DNC-Max do... So in the end CIMCO-Edit is their only technical weakness currently..

 

CIMCO-Edit is also a good product and very well integrated with NC-Base and DNC-Max... a very nice UI, but they slowed drastically the pace of the development in the past years and are living from the reputation they built for CIMCO-Edit in the past... their editor is no longer equally competitive when compared to other NC editors out there, such as Inplot, NCPlot, G-Wizard G-Code Editor, etc. It's more expensive than most them and delivers less.

 

It's just too sad, because we have a big infrastructure around CIMCO software here with nearly all modules and products: DNC-Max, NC-Base, MDC-Max, CNC-Calc, Cimco-Edit, etc... so it's something hard to quit... and they know it... that's why sometimes I vent my frustrations with the CAx world: Once they hook you up the honeymoon is gone...

 

CIMCO-Edit gets some fixes and small enhancements every now and then, but their NC functions menu don't get a brand new tool for what, 2-3 years? The last thing they put there was a multi-channel synch tool - It's a shame... everytime our programmers have to renumber 50 tools in a program I think about how easy it is for a developer to put a tool to handle that in that menu... but it's not in their agenda for now...

 

I'm all for maintenance fees as a way to allow the vendor to improve the product and offer me responsive technical support... can't complain about the last though... but honestly I feel the maintenance $$$ we put on CIMCO-Edit is not returned as it should in regards functionality... so it's a dead end: If you don't pay for maintenance, you can't get it, if you do, you don't get what you need... these are some of the problems with the software world...

 

It's important to consider my words only in the context of a NC editor. When it comes to CIMCO-Edit only, these are my impressions. But when you put all CIMCO products to work together you can see why they complement each other so nicely that the final result is not bad. And the company has also developed a bunch of stuff for us in the last years... unfortunately just a few things for Cimco-Edit though...

[Watcher]

Daniel - it maybe worth you dropping Scott an email to ask what he has planned and timeframes etc?

 

I think Scott should read this thread and get the kudos where kudos are due because although all companies mentioned above are small, Scott, is even smaller than some and did a great job with NCPlot.

[Watcher]

Dont think this has the functionality you are looking for but I have been using discriminator for years. you prob cant beat the price but does have limits and or I just havent spent the time to set it up to full potential. I know it will do more than what I use it for (quik ref and editing).

 

Glad we have this thread: The graphical compare feature in Discriminator looks very nice - I wish we could have it!

 

Also, their macro B debugger looks nice.

 

As usual, the real innovation is still coming from tiny players... the bigger you are, the less responsive you company will be. I think it could be set as a natural law...

[left coast lefty]

Thanks to all for the input.

 

I think we will go with NCplot....can't beat having good support.

[Newbeeee™]

As always there is a bit of time configuring it like you want it (you can do the colours of the nc file exactly the same as mastercam editor so it all looks the same) but the more you use it the more you'll like it.

You can keymap the arrow keys for forward and back as well to save the click click of the mouse etc. Very powerful tool (can I have my comission now Scott )

[left coast lefty]

As always there is a bit of time configuring it like you want it (you can do the colours of the nc file exactly the same as mastercam editor so it all looks the same) but the more you use it the more you'll like it.

You can keymap the arrow keys for forward and back as well to save the click click of the mouse etc. Very powerful tool (can I have my comission now Scott )

 

Thanks again, but you guys over there spell "colors" wrong!

[Guest SAIPEM]

Glad we have this thread: The graphical compare feature in Discriminator looks very nice - I wish we could have it!

 

Also, their macro B debugger looks nice.

 

As usual, the real innovation is still coming from tiny players... the bigger you are, the less responsive you company will be. I think it could be set as a natural law...

 

The Macro debugger is all but worthless.

It can't properly parse a single file containing the main program and subs required for a job.

When it comes this, NCPlot has it beat by a long shot.

I can have everything in a single file and NCPlot parses it as if it was an actual control.

Discriminator has some nice features but the Macro Debugger is really poor in functionality.

[Watcher]

The Macro debugger is all but worthless.

It can't properly parse a single file containing the main program and subs required for a job.

When it comes this, NCPlot has it beat by a long shot.

I can have everything in a single file and NCPlot parses it as if it was an actual control.

Discriminator has some nice features but the Macro Debugger is really poor in functionality.

 

Thanks SAIPEM!

 

It's very important that experienced people share their experiences with others... in an era where videos and eye-candy products are the rule of thumb and can have a significant impact on a procurement decision, the experience plays a key element.

 

Great topic!

[Newbeeee™]

Thanks again, but you guys over there spell "colors" wrong!

ROR - and this is coming from you who spells ALUMINIUM the same way as all 'you others' do

 

BTW - Scott released an update over the weekend - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ncplot_g-code_editor_backplotter/162327-ncplot_v2_26_now_available.html

And he even prints a bug fix list...

[jlw™]

The hatchet got burried but the handle was sticking out...

 

 

So, is NCplot still the best for macro debugging?

 

Do any backplotters support G68.2?

 

Will any of them backplot probe routines? Pretty much all of my macro work revolves around the probe.

 

When Cimco goes to machine sim, how much will it cost?

[Colin Gilchrist]

With all the work you do Jeremy, why not get full verification and simulation; Vericut? There is nothing quite as satisfying as running an accurate simulation and catching any mistake before you make it on the real machine. It is spendy, but it's also worth every penny. I like to ask people "what is your peace of mind worth"?

 

I don't know about G68.2 support for any g-code backplotters, but I know Vericut will support TWP, DFO, TCPC, and RTCP. Also full subprogram and Macro B simulation as well.

[Mick]

I was told the Cimco machine sim wouldn't be available until January at least. And I've not been told any pricing. Indeed, I'm not even sure they know the pricing yet.

 

It is still going to be a long way off Vericut though, that's for sure.

[Jayson Kramer]

As of right now the Machine sim for Cimco will be $1000,00 per a machine. Hope this helps Mick. I thought I told you a while ago sorry.