O/T VMC...Haas or Hardinge...?

[Oppiz]

We are in the process of purchasing a new VMC. We have in narrowed down to a couple machines.

Hardinge http://www.hardinge.com/Pages/134_VMC800.html

 

And a Haas VF 2 or VF 3

http://www.haascnc.com/products/vmc/mg40.asp

 

After doing a search within the forum on similar topic I get the feeling that the Haas is really popular.

I found very little info about the Hardinge.

 

What experiences do any of you have to help me in the decision?

 

Service?…Tech support?…. Dependability?… Controls?…..Etc.

Or is there a better choice?

[PE @ IHS]

They are both pretty decent machines for the money. The Hardinge VMC is not made in the USA model like their lathes, but it is a sturdy, reliable machine from Taiwan. The Haas controller gives you a few extra options that you don't get with Fanuc unless you pay for them.

 

Haas machines have come a long way in the last few years in terms of rigidity and reliability. I've had several customers purchase Hardinge VMCs recently because of the great pricing of the product. In my opinion, they are both good bets.

[chad fisher]

Our shop runs all Haas's now and we are really happy with the money spent on them and there service is great compared to others i have seen in the past.

Plus i feel comfortable that parts will be available

cheaply ten years from now for them. If you can talk to the boss into an option go for the side mount tool changer!

[Surface]

Service is always a large factor when I buy new equipment. If and when the machine breaks, how long will it be down? A few days of downtime can add up, both in terms of lost productivity and customer satisfaction. Where and how competent are the service technicians in your area for the respective machines?

[crazy^millman]

Well I would give them both a sample part of the hardest most complex surface thing you have. I would then see what they can do in a real world test with that part. I would go wit hthe High Torque verse the highspeed almost 4 times the torque as the highspeed and 3 times as much as the Standard. Wehn doing aluminum plastcis things of that such not ptoblem but if you plan to wrk the machine you will be happy to have the torque espically when taking a 4" facemill through titainum as .200 depth of cut at about 450Ssfm.

 

The Haas would be approached the same way when it comes to the torgue. I would look at the VF2SS and the VF3SS(yes they have this just not on the Web site yet) you get alot more bang for the buck. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

Crazy Millman

 

PS if doing big files like 70 to 80 mb get the capability to have ethernet on the machine.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

+1 chad fisher great service when needed and parts availability plus alot of shops and schools have haas makes it easy to get guys to run them that know the controls and machines also get the side mount changer

[Toolfab]

I got to go with Haas. We just a VF3, and it is pretty good machine. I hve been programming Maho's for years so getting into something new can be a little shacky. My experiance with Haas has been awesome!! Pretty easy to get going on and the control is great....that combined with my friends in here, it was no problem to pick up!

 

I have no experiance with Hardinge, but I can tell you that my VF3 rocks!

 

[chris m]

As long as you know what you're buying it for, the Haas is a decent machine. I've been working with a VF2 and VF3 lately at my night job and they are pretty good machines for the money. I would definitely go for the side-mount toolchanger as the carousel style sucks. As far as Hardinge goes, their service is lousy in my experience except for one guy. Don't know how it got narrowed down to Haas vs Hardinge, but if those are your only options I would definitely go with the Haas.

 

+1 to Crazy on the SS, the VF2 I've been working on is an SS and the speeds / performance are very impressive for the price range

 

C

 

[ 09-23-2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Toolfab]

Chirs,

 

What is your complaint about the carousel tool changer? I dont mind it. Hasn't given me any problems.

 

Pauly teh thread hijacker..lol

[MACHINEMASTERG]

quote:

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What is your complaint about the carousel tool changer

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side mnt holds more tools ..its faster,,, and its not in the work envelope..

[Chris Rizzo]

I don't know much about the Hardinge machines, but between a VF2 & VF3, VF3 all the way.The VF0,OE,&2 share the same castings. The VF3,4,&5 share their own castings...Therefore, the VF3 is the "smallest" machine built on the biggest iron.

If you look at the main casting on any Haas machine, (I think the numbers are on the verticle next to the power panel) you can see what models share that iron.

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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What is your complaint about the carousel tool changer

---

The side mount gets you more Z clearance.

 

-With a side mount, the machine goes all the "way up" (machine Z0) for a tool change. However, a carousel hangs down in the z envelope, thus tool changes take place at something like machine Z 2.000. Probably not so much an issue with the larger machines, but it sure sucks with a mini mill!

[chris m]

Paul

 

I think the other guys answered for me.

 

The difference in toolchange time is phenomenal, the tools aren't hanging down into the machine, you have more tools...

 

VF3 is a nice machine, but physically takes up a lot of space. VF2SS rocks.

 

C

[Oppiz]

Update!

The bean counters might have a little more money in their budget for our new VMC. The bossman is looking at Cincinnati machines, So What do you recommend in higher end verticals??

[robk]

Cincinnati... You lucky dog. I'm jealous.

Still looking @ Kitamura in here though. No bad feedback from anyone in my earlier thread.

 

Rob

[chris m]

1) Matsuura

1a) Matsuura

1b) Matsuura

1c) Matsuura

2) Mori Seiki

3) Okuma

[iowajim62]

hi oppiz,

 

quote:

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The bean counters might have a little more money in their budget for our new VMC

---

Makino S-33L

http://www.makino.com/search/articles.asp?...C+with+New+S33L

[Trevor Bailey]

You can get a Mori without all the bells & whistles for a pretty good price. If you think you are going to do some heavy steel machining, I would look at the Mori. It is better to have what you may need now than to not have it when you need it.

[Oppiz]

quote:

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Makino S-33L

---

A Hardinge Rep spoke to us today. He just so happened to sell Makinos Also. Sweet machines (makino), I hope we can work out a deal on one of these.

[iowajim62]

Hi Oppiz,

 

Yeah that badboy looks good.

We have 8 A55 Horizontals in 4 machine cells with 28 pallets per line. Don't know anybody with the new toys but our Makinos just run and run and run.

Stainless,Titanium,Alum,Copper you name it they run it. And never break down it seems. I barely know the Makino Service Guys because of the reliability of these little rippers.

Good Luck on your quest for new toys.

[crazy^millman]

The Makios look like sweet meachine I like that over 900 ipm feedrate would love ot have that some times.

 

Crazy Millman