3 Axis Vertical recomendations

[DavidB]

Do not under any circumstances look at a DMG Eco series....POS machines

 

+1

 

The Doosan does look good. Looking at the DVM and the DNM series.

The Makino PS95 looks OK too

[dstryr]

+1

 

The Doosan does look good. Looking at the DVM and the DNM series.

The Makino PS95 looks OK too

 

I have a 2010 DNM500. Love it. If you have time order it with the high speed lookahead. the Fanuc oi standard sucks but other than that the machine can cut

[within a thou]

Doosans are awesome machines. I have been around them for about 10 years and can't think of a single service call I have had to make. The one horizonatal I was around at one shop I worked at about 2 years ago they beat on this thing shredding huge parts that were 3 times the weight of what the machine was supposed to be able to handle and it was still no problem. On the verticals I was around they had M codes so when a safety zone was missed and the tool carousel got jammed they are super easy to reset through MDI. Guess that really shouldn't be a selling feature but we all know chit happens from time to time and the easier it is to clean the chit the better.

[Newbeeee™]

^^^to me M codes to recover tool jams etc are a big selling point. Things go wrong on the panic job on a saturday morning and you need to know easilly how to get out of it and get cutting metal.

[DavidB]

With the Doosans I see AICC is standard will this good enough for 3-axis surface machining?

Is there any options you guys recommend?

[Newbeeee™]

Tim or James would correct me, but it depends upon how the MTB specs the machine. You can have OiMD with alpha or beta drives, and I believe a couple of different other hardware configurations.

Alpha is faster processing and higher resolution etc by a mile, but what runs on our robodrills (alpha and 31i control) also runs just as well on our beta OiMC and OiMD machines. That said we did a lot of parameter servo tuning on our C controls, and only tweaked the 1 parameter for the D control.

So for surfacing, it really hasn't been a problem with us as we output everything from mcam with arcs. I haven't tried it but if it all was G1's, I'm sure the C and D machines would choke (they are only 486 style processors I think - the 31i is pentium I believe).

The biggest PITA is the memory size. Now I know the C is definately not upgradeable and I know the D is twice the size of the C, but it may be upgradeable becuase the D is a cut down 31i control - totally different to the C (A, B + C where generation changes of the same basic 21/18/16 control so I was told, but D is based upon the 'new' 31).

But if memory is a problem, you can use the PCMCIA card on the front of the control - it works well.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

With the Doosans I see AICC is standard will this good enough for 3-axis surface machining?

Is there any options you guys recommend?

 

The AI in AICC indicates that the machine has the Alpha I series servo system.

The OiTD and OiMD controls are all 31 series architecture.

 

For most I would say yes, this is sufficient for 3D work, however, that also depends on the quality of the underlying toolpath.

Keep in mind that AICC is on by default (R5).

You don't have to code for it unless you want to adjust the settings for rough versus finish.

http://www.mtbtech.n...Simplified.aspx

 

Doosan is very good about including things as standard that would otherwise be optional.

You'll get Macro-B included in the States but I'd double check as it may be different in Oz.

Since they already come ready to network, I wouldn't get too hung up on memory size but it's worth getting info on the FANUC Data Server.

They come with USB now so Drip feeding is easy enough.

Set the I/O channel to 17 for USB.

 

I would absolutely make sure to get the ease of operation package.

You may want to consider Manual Guide-i for shop floor programming.

I only use it for error checking.

[DavidB]

So its on all the time with a value of R5 correct?

Great info on your web site MTB

Thanks

[DavidB]

What are the Doosan Lathes like?

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

So its on all the time with a value of R5 correct?

 

Yep

 

What are the Doosan Lathes like?

 

IMHO, Doosan Lathes are actually better than the mills and I'm a fan of their mills, especially their horizontals.

Easily in the top 5 as far as commodity machines go, in terms of value.

Especially true for Mill-Turn Machines.

 

Take care of them with general maintenance and PM and they'll last for 20 years.

 

I'll take a Doosan Slant-Bed over a Mori these days without batting an eye.

 

In the US, the support is great and you can always call the HQ if your dealer can't answer a question.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I have a Doosan 220a

Very good bang for the buck

Strong and fast.

Been making money fro me since 2006.

I think it's had one service call. And that was to put a new window in it when an operator put a reamer through it...

He don't work here no more.

[DavidB]

"He don't work here no more"

[DavidB]

I had the Makino rep out today the PS65/95 don't come with AICC as standard and the Manual Guide I is also an option.

I was wondering what this machine would be like for 3 axis surface work???

[GoetzInd]

David,

Maybe PM Bob Wolcot on this forum. He has one and I believe does some surfacing on it.

 

Mike

[DavidB]

Thanks Goetzlnd

Whats his user name on the forum?

[Maclaw]

I wouldn't buy a HAAS sorry

 

Doosan are ok are they? Didn't think of Doosan.

 

Why would You not? I have 2 Haas machines (VF-2SS and VM-3). They do the job in ALU (I have a blurry feeling though, that their HSM capabilities sometimes lack a little but have no real comparison). I really don't do much heavy machining - so can't really say to the end what they're worth. That's why I would really like Your thoughts about this.

I'm thinking of getting another VF-3 maybe VF-4 with trunnion.... Should I not go that road....? What's the "blind spot"?

 

I would really appreciate Your point of view.

 

I've got a little blind by the amount of meetings with machine tool dealers. They always say that their machines are the best and the others are crap (with no specific technical argumentation why - pure marketing - makes me sick). My brain is washed - please help...

[Thee Dragracer1951]

We have two VM2's where I work now.

A 2011 and a 2012. both have had multiple service calls. The 2011 has had a new main motor and spindle put into it. The 2012 has had a new Z ball screw put into it. The bottom bearing carrier was not pinned from the factory. That was a couple months ago. It's making ugly noises again.

We're looking at getting a horizontal to support production as well as build hard tooling for our two Engle injection mold machines. It's not going to be a Haas.

I had an SL10 Haas that was an absolute nightmare. I also have a 2000 Mini. It just keeps on running. But I have not had good exepriences with newer Haas machines.

I would absolutely NEVER attemt to tap anything with either of these two machines. How crazy is THAT???

[GoetzInd]

I would absolutely NEVER attemt to tap anything with either of these two machines. How crazy is THAT???

 

Hey I like bashing Haas with the rest of em' but they are a decent machine for the money. We have a little VF2ss here that has made millions of $ worth of parts and tapped a million holes. Original spindles too.

 

Mike

[RaiderX]

We have 11 haas machines have made millions $'s with them but I dont think a single one has original spindle many are on there 4-5th?

its takes different strategy than our upper end machines. schedule can really be a factor when you cannot fully depend on equipment.

[Eric@HorsepowerInc.]

 

 

Hey I like bashing Haas with the rest of em' but they are a decent machine for the money. We have a little VF2ss here that has made millions of $ worth of parts and tapped a million holes. Original spindles too.

 

Mike

So true, I really can't complain about our VF5, but our Doosans will make the parts in half the time, and not sound like a bag of tin cans. Don't push them and cut aluminum and they last! : )

[DavidB]

I had the feeler rep in today any thoughts on these?

All Fanuc Alfa motors and Fanuc OI model D controller

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

I had the feeler rep in today any thoughts on these?

All Fanuc Alfa motors and Fanuc OI model D controller

 

Decent iron.

 

Make sure you do a side by side comparison of standard features and options.

 

Methods is the importer here in the states.

[Newbeeee™]

Feeler holding company (Fir Friend?) bought Leadwell a couple of years back I believe.

They do look good machines.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

So true, I really can't complain about our VF5, but our Doosans will make the parts in half the time, and not sound like a bag of tin cans. Don't push them and cut aluminum and they last! : )

 

I had an SL10. Still have a Doosan 220a. The Doosan will run the same program about 25% or so faster than the Haas.

I'll happily admit I got a lemon from Haas. And I'll also admit my Mini just runs and runs. But I got a real bad taste in my mouth from Haas.

The two VM2's here at work haven't made me feel any better about them either.

[cincy k]

I have two Feeler VMP-1100's and a thrid on the way. They're nice machines. I do anything from simple 2 axis work to full 4 axis work. Materials are anything from aluminum to titanium to tool steels. The machine handles the materials just fine. Warm the machines up in the morning and they hold tolerance well throughout the day. They have a few quirks but nothing that prevents me from making very high quality parts. PM me if you want more details.

 

In the past I ran Fadals and a Mori horizontal. I would put the Feelers well above the Fadals and obviously below the Mori. This last time around doing a machine search I looked at Okuma Genos, Mori Duravertical, Matsuura VX and Makino PS. If you are doing higher end work and can justify a higher price tag I'd go with the Mori. It's nice the Mori is built in the US for me. Probably doesn't matter to you. The matsuura and okuma I feel will hold tolerance better than the others over very long cycles. These two have the highest spindle speed as well if you need more than 10k or 12k.

 

As always, local support, local support, local support.

 

TK