Haas UMC-750 General Questions

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

We finally got our Haas UMC-750 up and running and I am going to start cutting on Monday. We also purchased at post processor from In House Solutions through our reseller for this machine. I had a few general questions about the machine I was hoping someone could help me out with.

 

Question one is currently our Post is posting out G254 which is the code to turn on "DWO" Dynamic Work Offset. It is my impression that you would only want to use DWO for 3+1 or 3+2 machining when the part is positioned on the machine in a different location than it is in the CAD system. Currently I am programming all parts from the center of rotation and they are on the machine in the same location as I have them in Mastercam. How can I get the post not to post out G254 or only post G254 If I need it too.

 

Secondly should I use the rotary lock and unlock codes with this machine. The Haas tech told me not to unless I am doing 4 or 5-axis milling where the machine is cutting while moving 4 or more axis simultaneously. He said in this case I would want to unlock the B and C axis using the M11 and M13 codes, let the multi-axis tool path run then lock the axis with the M10 and M12 codes. He said if I didn't do this the machine would be trying to lock and unlock during the tool path. He also said for 3+1 or 3+2 machining you didn't need the codes because the machine would lock and unlock automatically. This doesn't sound right to me. I was wondering what people are doing who have this machine.

 

Last question for now anyway is G84 the code for rigid tap on the Haas UMC-750. Normally that is for a floating head.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Justin

[Chris Rizzo]

Sorry I have no answers. I'd just call Haas direct and speak with their support.

 

Did you get a simulator also?

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Thanks Chris,

 

I can call Haas and our reseller on Monday. I'm was just trying to do some footwork this weekend and get some answers before I got into work on Monday. I was hoping someone who had this machine could shed some light.

[Watcher]

IMHO there's nothing wrong with DWO active all the time. If you have the probing option with this machine you will have always a quicker set-up if you work off center and you won't have to always design fixtures that center your zero-point with the center of rotation. It's very hard/expensive to build fixtures that are accurate enough to do it specially if they're tall because you need clearance between the spindle and the table. DWO is an answer for this demand.

 

AFAIK DWO is a new feature on Haas controls and UMC is delivering it. If I was in your shoes I'd take advantage of it all the time. It makes your setups quicker, the operator's life easier and your fixtures simpler. It may require more elaborated programs in regards the capture of the zero point with probing, but that's in fact the exciting part IMHO.

 

JM2C

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Watcher,

 

Thanks for the reply. Maybe if I explain how we use this machine you will understand why I don't want to use DWO except in very rare occasions. We have G54 set to the center of rotation. We run all of our parts from solid blocks of material that have no previous machining done to them except tapped holes used to bolt them to the fixture. The parts come off the machine complete with no secondary operations. The parts are located on the machine in the same position they are set up in Mastercam. I plan to have two fixtures that can do just about every part we will make on this machine. I designed the fixtures this weekend in Solidworks and will make them this week from drop off material we have laying around the shop. We also leave all of our tools in the turret so we don't have to set tools unless something very non standard is needed. The fastest set up you can do is the set up that requires you to do nothing so in this case even probing the part is a waist of time. I'm glad the machine has DWO and TCPC but I will not need these features 99% of the time. I just want to be able to turn them on and off as needed with a switch in the Post. One thing I am still confused about is how the machine will react if I leave DWO and TCPC turned on because currently we have G54 set to the same numbers as the Machine Rotary Zero Point that the probe picked up when we set up the machine. Thanks again for your input and I would appreciate hearing any further knowledge you have on this subject. I am new to Haas and I am trying to get this machine set up the same way the other machines in our shop are set up.

[Chris In-House Solutions]

Justin there is a switch in the post called swt_dtrack near the top of the post if you don want it to post out the G254 just set this switch to zero. We are in the process or developing a user interface that will allow you to change switches in the post for specific files without opening the post. Its almost complete we just need to further test it before we begin to distribute it.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Thanks Chris that was exactly what I was looking for.

[Watcher]

Justin,

 

The way you are working with the machine with raw blocks crossed my mind but I thought you were not working this way...

 

Yes, it makes sense...

[Machineguy]

G84 is for rigid tap. On that machine it should be on from the factory.

Look at parameters

Key in 57 on the keyboard

Look at about 5 down from the top. It should say RIGID TAP WITH A "1" at the end of the line. that mean its on.

 

For reference, look at the back of the operator manual. Page 1. it will list all the options that are turned on.

 

machineguy

[Machineguy]

Opps. after you key in "57". hit the down arrow !

 

Machineguy

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Thanks for the information machineguy I really appreciate it. Hopefully I'll get to tap some holes tomorrow.

[Machineguy]

Something else to look at. Setting 130.

This setting controls how fast a tap will retract out of a hole. My VM-3 was set at 4. Thats 4x faster RPM on the retract side. It tends to break small taps depending what material you are using.I reset this to "1". 90% of my work is prototype. I not a fan of AW-S***. on a part.

 

Play with this setting and see what works for you.

 

Machineguy

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

Ok thanks again.

[Brian Pallas]

You can also control the Tap retract sped with a "J" command in the G84 line, the J command is how many times fsater than the programmed feed rate the tap retracts.

G98 g84 R.1 Z-1. F20. J4

Would have the tap retract at 4 times the feed rate so 80 in this example.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Justin,

What are your thoughts on this machine? Is it a good value?

 

Thanks,

 

-Josh

[crazy^millman]

Josh one of companies in went into this week has one and they are very happy with the machine. They got the CNC software post and are looking to get another one.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Thanks Ron. You can find good used variaxis's in that price range every once in a while but $170ish for a new machine is a hard one to pass on... I know we bought a vf2 with a trunnion years ago and Haas had to give our money back because of how poorly it handled 5axis motion.

 

I'm not really a Haas fan but if it's mildly rigid and can do smooth simultaneous 5axis motion then I'll consider....

 

I wonder what the waiting list is like?

 

Thanks,

 

Josh-

[crazy^millman]

I heard it was 6 to 8 months some months ago, but they were ramping up production. I think they were totally unprepared for the response they were going to get.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

I heard that also. That won't work for us... I sent a request to Selway.

 

Thanks Ron.

 

Josh-

[vanbry]

Thanks Ron. You can find good used variaxis's in that price range every once in a while but $170ish for a new machine is a hard one to pass on... I know we bought a vf2 with a trunnion years ago and Haas had to give our money back because of how poorly it handled 5axis motion.

 

I'm not really a Haas fan but if it's mildly rigid and can do smooth simultaneous 5axis motion then I'll consider....

 

I wonder what the waiting list is like?

 

Thanks,

 

Josh-

 

We ordered one in October 2013, and are taking delivery next week.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

OUCH!!

[crazy^millman]

Hum yeah lets do a little Millman to the power of Crazy Math here. 6 months of time or 26 weeks to not spend money on a better machine. I like my $100/hr shop rate helps do math real easy.

 

26 weeks of 50 hours a week.

$5000 a week of lost production which is really $10k since I use the 2 for 1 rule.

$10k during the 26 weeks comes out to $260k.

 

Hum for $260k there are some really nice brand new machines out there, but someone saved some money going with a cheaper unproven over time machine. Hum and people wonder why jobs keep leaving America?

 

Take that same math and had you been able to 150 hours a week out of the right machine like a Matsuura with a pallet pool system that would be $780k of production abilities you could have made up in that time.

 

Yeah I know not my money and I am just crazy to even to look at it that way.

[Robert Ouellette]

we just got a price on a new Matsuura 5 axis and the delivery is not any better than on the Haas. we got a quote of 5-6 months depending on the boat. and we were second in line for that model.

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

Or you could look for a machine tool show and buy one of the display models they are using ? If its something you like ?

HTH

Options Options Options

[Eric@HorsepowerInc.]

Hum yeah lets do a little Millman to the power of Crazy Math here. 6 months of time or 26 weeks to not spend money on a better machine. I like my $100/hr shop rate helps do math real easy.

 

26 weeks of 50 hours a week.

$5000 a week of lost production which is really $10k since I use the 2 for 1 rule.

$10k during the 26 weeks comes out to $260k.

 

Hum for $260k there are some really nice brand new machines out there, but someone saved some money going with a cheaper unproven over time machine. Hum and people wonder why jobs keep leaving America?

 

Take that same math and had you been able to 150 hours a week out of the right machine like a Matsuura with a pallet pool system that would be $780k of production abilities you could have made up in that time.

 

Yeah I know not my money and I am just crazy to even to look at it that way.

. Yep, you are exactly correct! Which is why we just sold a machine and picked up a pallet horizontal. You either invest in your future or wonder why you don't have any work.