Duravertical 5100 opinions

[Marshal]

The salesman stopped by yesterday talking up the Duravertical 5100 for us, and I'm curious if anyone has any real world opinions on them. Any drawbacks that he wasn't going to tell me/

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Avoid anything that says DMG/Mori on it.

[Marshal]

Avoid anything that says DMG/Mori on it.

 

what's the reasoning behind that?

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

The last two customers of mine that had these VMCs sent them back.

 

The quality of anything that has a DMG/Mori label on it is attempting to take advantage of Mori-Seiki history.

[Craig-B]

The Dura Vertical, is a good machine, I have one that runs 116 hours a week doing heavy milling now for 5 years now. It was built in japan and came out before the all the DMG stuff that would be the DMC 1035 V ecoline, I cant speake for them.

[?Mark]

The Dura Vertical, is a good machine, I have one that runs 116 hours a week doing heavy milling now for 5 years now. It was built in japan and came out before the all the DMG stuff that would be the DMC 1035 V ecoline, I cant speake for them.

+1

Don't know much about the newest batch of duracenters/duraverticals, but historically they've been excellent workhorses (lighter duty)

[Marshal]

99% of our work is aluminum.

 

We're basically looking for a similar sized machine in a similar price range (around $100k)

[cincy k]

The last two customers of mine that had these VMCs sent them back.

 

The quality of anything that has a DMG/Mori label on it is attempting to take advantage of Mori-Seiki history.

 

Were these US Davis, CA built machines?

[Joe788]

I'm pretty sure the Duravertical 5100 is still a half Japanese half Davis CA machine (They ship kits from Japan, and slap them together in Davis). The "eco" machines were the China junk from DMG.

[Newbeeee™]

Avoid anything that says DMG/Mori on it.

I don't know where Mori are going with this.

I was told that Dr Mori (as in big cheese) wants to have a machine tool company bigger than Mazak, so buying DMG helps him on his way to his dream...

But in the UK, Mori had a good name and machines, but very small market (most due to cost). DMG, I could count on one hand after an accident with a bandsaw how many I know of in companies.

And in looking at DMG's a couple of years ago, they look real lightweight which is why we stayed well away (talking vmc's and 2/3 axis lathes. The twin spindle lathes looked good, but the 2axis grazziano things looked urrrrrgh!).

Hopefully Dr Mori's dream doesn't turn into a nightmare....

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Were these US Davis, CA built machines?

 

Don't know.

I just know that my customer was so aggravated with the performance and accuracy that they made Ellison take them back.

They replaced them with Doosan.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

I don't know where Mori are going with this.

I was told that Dr Mori (as in big cheese) wants to have a machine tool company bigger than Mazak, so buying DMG helps him on his way to his dream...

But in the UK, Mori had a good name and machines, but very small market (most due to cost). DMG, I could count on one hand after an accident with a bandsaw how many I know of in companies.

And in looking at DMG's a couple of years ago, they look real lightweight which is why we stayed well away (talking vmc's and 2/3 axis lathes. The twin spindle lathes looked good, but the 2axis grazziano things looked urrrrrgh!).

Hopefully Dr Mori's dream doesn't turn into a nightmare....

 

They story I was given was that Mori and DMG were very close to going under because of the economic downturn in 2008.

The partnership was one of survival.

Don't know if that's the case but here's some background.

http://business.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/eng/20130930/254018/

 

The only Mori I would even consider today is one of their Multi-Tasking machines.

Even their slant bed lathes aren't what they used to be.

I can't stand their MAPPS interface.

[Joe788]

They story I was given was that Mori and DMG were very close to going under because of the economic downturn in 2008.

The partnership was one of survival.

Don't know if that's the case but here's some background.

http://business.nikk...0130930/254018/

 

The only Mori I would even consider today is one of their Multi-Tasking machines.

Even their slant bed lathes aren't what they used to be.

I can't stand their MAPPS interface.

 

I found this quote from that story amusing:

 

One reason for the two suitors taking it so slow is Mori Seiki's 2002 acquisition of Hitachi Seiki Co., the long-established machine tools manufacturer. "Only recently could you say that we have finally merged in both name and practice," admits President Mori.

 

LOL. On what planet has Mori "finally merged in both name and practice" with Hitachi? I assume he really means "We finally got people to stop calling us looking for Hitachi parts".

 

Mori only sold the old Hitachi based machines for like a year or so, to get rid of all the WIP - and they were all promptly killed off after that.

[Newbeeee™]

Mori only sold the old Hitachi based machines for like a year or so, to get rid of all the WIP - and they were all promptly killed off after that.

At the old sh!t tip where I worked, we had VS50's (vmc) which had a spindle that lasted from a couple of days to nearly 6 months max.

Inbuilt motor crap design. Never set up so couldn't accurately contour over 40" per minute.

VM40 (vmc) sewing machine - spindle lasted 12 months then rebuild. Couldn't take a cut. Swarf regularly killed it because of microswitches being in the wrong place...

Hicells made of cheese. Linear ways 15mm wide and spaced 10" apart. Couldn't use a 12mm cutter when milling - the thing would shake like it had parkinsons.

But the old HG400 (hori) was a good workhorse. And the 25G 2axis lathe was solid as well.

 

Their HS400 hori quill machine was made by Tongtai in Taiwan, and I'm sure the VS50 was made by them as well.

Also the 20 model lathe (2axis and 3) looked soooooooo similar to the Kia, it wouldn't surprise me if Kia built it for them.

It really is no surprise that they went bust.

[crazy^millman]

Hum Well I have several customers with them and I have been doing a turn key projects on them and they seem to be decent enough machines. I have set up a NHX-4000 Horizontal with a system that is giving the company about 20 hours a day of production capability. They had bought the machine to replace 2 older machines thinking the one machine would be busy all year. After my work getting some of the parts up and running they are wondering what to do with extra 8 months of production they are now going to be getting from the one machine.

 

Mapps control for me is not that bad, (Sorry Tim) it does takes some use to getting to like Mazatrol. Make sure you get the memory and accessories work out before hand. I have seen machines delivery that are 5 axis machines without inverse time, 128mb of memory and no extended workoffsets. Big things I would demand on a machining center. G08 is standard, but if you want look ahead and other things again get all of that worked out up front. CoolJet is late on a few systems for some of my customers with brand new machines so make sure you get that worked out if getting 1000 psi. Other than that I think you will be happy.

[kh012]

we have a DV5100 with a ddrt260 head, a dc5 , sv500 ,and a mv55. we have

found these to be really thight and accurate machines.

we are currantly looking to add another dv5100 / ddrt260 machine to the shop.

we also have 3 mori lathes also no problems.

the only draw back is sometimes the service from ellison can be lagging.

 

HTH Ken

[RaiderX]

Ours has done us well. things to ask about are:

1 control heard rumor they offer mits. controls? we have Fanuc Oi

2 High speed AICC is a must to make use of this machine, esp. Alum

those are just what I would consider musts, ours is fully optioned out.

just past 1st year with this machine and has not missed a beat. Coolant tank-recovery system is a little week.

[Marshal]

So almost everyone agrees that they're decent machines for the money?

 

They recommend a chip auger that's like $12k to separate the aluminium chips from the coolant, but with the slide out tray I don't even think we need a chip conveyor for the amount of material we actually run. It can always be added later if needed since the hookup comes standard.

[kh012]

on the controls 3 of our mills and all the lathes have mit. controls.

the dv5100 has a MSX-504IV control it is in reallity a fanuc o-imd control.

every thing spec's out the same. we run fanuc formats on all our programs.

all the drive hardware is fanuc on all the machines.

with the AICC this machine shreds in alum. we rough and high speed finish

ti-al-4v about 120 hrs a week with no problems for over a year.

holds tol. in the tenth's all day long.

 

HTH Ken

[DavidB]

Personally I love the MAPPS controller. On the Lathe I have jobs programmed in MAPPS before the Mastercam PC fires up.

Mori is a great machine

[Marshal]

on the controls 3 of our mills and all the lathes have mit. controls.

the dv5100 has a MSX-504IV control it is in reallity a fanuc o-imd control.

every thing spec's out the same. we run fanuc formats on all our programs.

all the drive hardware is fanuc on all the machines.

with the AICC this machine shreds in alum. we rough and high speed finish

ti-al-4v about 120 hrs a week with no problems for over a year.

holds tol. in the tenth's all day long.

 

HTH Ken

 

forgive my ignorance, but what is AICC?

[Guest]

forgive my ignorance, but what is AICC?

In simple terms it's the machine's high speed processing option. There' several levels. Look-Ahead is the lowest form of processing control (G8.P1), AICC I (G5.1Q1) is in the middle, and AICC II is the top now (also activated by G5.1Q1). There's other options like NANO Smoothing (G5.1Q3) and Smooth Interpolation (G5.1 Q2), that go along with AICC activated by their respective codes in the proper order.

 

HPCC and NURBS are still around and can be ordered but it's old technology and AICC II has taken over with the newer FANUC 30i Series and 0i Series Controls. The new options on the new controls beat the old stuff hands down. If you have old 15i/16i/18i controls HPCC and NURBS are the best you can do.

[DavidB]

AICC is 40 block look ahead and AICC II (2) is 200 block look ahead. These are Fanuc functions which are turned on and off by different G codes depending on the machine tool builder.

[Marshal]

I guess I'll have to make sure I ask about that option since I don't see anything about it on our quote.

[#Rekd™]

DMG is an acronym for Damn Machine's Garbage.