O/T Why? I don't understand the logic behind this..

[Rekd™]

Oh, BTW,

 

quote:

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so you are comparing criminals with "illegal aliens"?

---

Comparing? No. They are one in the same. A criminal is one that breaks the law. an illegal alien is one that breaks the law... Get it?

 

'Rekd

[biss03]

rek'd...

 

thanks for the link. i've forwarded it to the guys.

 

keep on stating the facts and telling the truths of society( we all know you will ), its amazing how some people just don't get it.

 

[ 10-20-2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: biss03 ]

[Rekd™]

You're welcome, biss.

 

Yeah, I just have to wonder about someone that thinks it's ok or justifyable to break the law because it's in 'their' best interest.

 

'Rekd

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

---

The so-called 'abuse' you're speaking of... don't you think these people are being abusive by just being here illegally? Do you think it's ok that I should have to take food out of my families mouth to pay for these aliens to be here driving? Who's gonna insure them? Who's gonna register their car? Who's gonna pay for the accidents they're gonna cause? Me and you! (If you're legal, that is...)

---

Thing is, our fatally flawed and entirely non-fuctional immigration laws already have allowed large numbers of illigals to live and thrive here in the US. We are already collectively paying for the consiquences of this. Allowing them to get driver's licences, so the argument goes, will allow them to purchase insurance, register thier vehicles, and assume financial responsibility for thier actions.

 

Do I agree? No. I think it perpetuates the abuseive nature of our current broken immigration system. I think that we need to focus on the things that drive immigration. We need to make busnesses, even shady ones, fearful of hiring undocumented immigrants. Untill and unless we make that happen, we are using a garden hose to attack a forest fire.

[Lathe-Mill]

quote:

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Me and you! (If you're legal, that is...)

---

lol...lol... that is funny

like mr. damiani said a naturalized (i.e. non-native) citezen. Pehaps this colurs my view on the subject. Perhaps not. , i am also

 

we all came here no one was here but the natives,

so makes as immigrants.

i will like to hear an native american opinion on this, bet you anything he feels the way you do, and he might ask you the same question you asked.

 

 

quote:

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I am sorry to say that I believe my views regarding immigration are towards the immigrants because I AM an immigrant and am trying to teach my kids that they will always be an immigrant, something many have forgotten (ask indians about that).

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we all dislike the fact that we have2 pay for lazy a$$ people, but at least some people are willing to work for it, and beleive me, no one wanst your money or mine, i am sure i dont want it, i rather work for it.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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so makes as immigrants.

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Um, no. I was actually born here, to parents that came to this country legally. Don't try to mix illegal aliens/immigrants with legal aliens/immigrants, mmkay?

 

Sorry, no offense, but your views hold absolutely NO water with me. I don't see how you can justify what you're saying.

 

I also don't see the need to try to skirt the issue of illegal aliens driving in this country legally by bringing natives into it. Fact is, the only place ANYbody is a native of, is Africa. Because EVERYbody originated from there according to scientific facts, (read DNA testing)...

 

'Rekd teh darwin theory

[Rekd™]

p.s.

 

quote:

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no one wanst your money or mine, i am sure i dont want it, i rather work for it.

---

Um, not true. I want everyone's money! Seriously. But you don't see me stealing it do you?

[Lathe-Mill]

by the way, call your local I.R.S office, ask them how many "illegal" people pay taxes, trust me a lot of them do, just like you and I pay them.

that makes them part of the working force that are supporting the lazy ones (welfare,criminals,crack heads etc..).

i think if "we" more informed about it, the more we know and "we" might think a bit diferent

[Lathe-Mill]

but, dont you think is better knowin who lives next door to you then not knowing?

mr "x" or mr. " pedro".

if pedro has a job, pay his taxes and has a driver's license, dont you think he's will be insured?..may be that is something that they should make mandatory, insured license and vehicle., the politician has spoken right?..lets give them license to drive, perhaps the people from that state should ask that politician to make it mandatory to insure themselfs before they get in to the car, at least that will keep some kind of record on them.

[crazy^millman]

+1000000000 Rekd goes back to what I think wrong is wrong anyway you stack it. I had to pay over $5000 of my money to make my wife legal. We have been together almost 6 years and have one kid with one on the way. She is still on a green card they could boot her any minute cuase they want to. This is the risk I live with everyday. I am then suppose to say well ok make right cause they are Mexican, Chinese, French, or what other nationallity and dont make them have to follow the law because alot of their familes live here. Make it easy on them to allow them to be here illgeal but drive here legal WFT sense does that make.

 

I also ask you did you think of the fact that it could be a tatic to find out who the illegals are so we can round them all up and send them back. You then give up your freedom what little you have in this country cause you did a something to allow yourself to be known. I can just see the NAACP and AFCLA all over that.

 

I had to pay and still paying to make my wife legal here then why should soemone esle get it easier cuase they did it illegally.

 

Crazy Millman get a clue folks wrong is wrong anyway you stack it, smoke it, lick it, and so onnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ 10-20-2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Millman^Crazy ]

[TimHollis]

Yeah Baby!!!!!

Give it all away!!!

I used to care what the Government did with my dinero, not any more!

 

The last time I got involved in something like this, was HUMILIATING!

 

1999, my Book Keeper/ Human Resource Manager walks into my office and shows me a letter from Social Security. 43 out of 82 employees, had a problem with their SS #. The letter instructed us, that we had to notify the employee, That there is a discrepancy with the Social Security Number provided by them. And also in the letter was a carefully worded warning, that I, ( the company) alone would be liable if any action stemming from this notice resulted in a termination of that employee.

 

After a call and a fax to my attorney, This is what he came back with.

You being notified by SS, that there is a problem with the SS# reported by some of your employees. You by law, have to notify them accordingly. I’m sending you a master form to use for each person. Once it’s signed, put it in their folder and forget about it. If INS comes in, just show them the notice signed by them, you’re covered. But if they feel threaten or discriminated against, you are responsible for the liability’s not SS.

 

I understood and had no problem following his recommendation. Then the 2nd half of our conversation. This was a common situation, the computer at SS, automatically kicks these numbers out, and they send the notice out to you to cover their backside because more often than not, the SS# being used by Illegal Aliens, are original SS# belonging to people who now are deceased. I hung up the phone, and called a couple of other people, with their own company. We were all getting these letters, and we were all being told to do the same thing.

 

I sat there and got excited about the fact that SS, was getting all of this money, on people they would never have to pay a benefit claim on again, same for State and Federal wage taxes. So I called and wrote letters with photo-copy’s of the original SS notice, to all Government Offices, one would send these things to. After getting all kinds of nice reply’s, I sent them to tax watchdog groups, the local papers.

 

Then one day, just like the movie, 2 MIB show up, receptionist tells me, she put 2 INS people, in the conference room. I go in, sit down, and listened to them, about how I was interfering with ongoing investigations, that if I continued to bring attention to this problem that they were already handling, I might receive more than I bargained for. It was explained to me, what the Full Resources of the Government, means. I told them I would co-operate a 100%.

 

I never told anybody else in the group of owners who got together once a month for our Molders Guild meetings, but imagine the feeling I had when one person came up to me and told me that same thing happened to her, only difference was they saw me 1st, and TOLD her how I was co-operating.

 

I let it go, and to this day have never heard a word about this issue.

 

Thanks

Tim H.

[Rekd™]

So, Tim... What did you learn from this? I'll tell you what I lernt..

 

My secretary will be joining me in the conference room, with a tape recorder sitting on the middle of the table recording when MIB shows up..

 

I know a couple lawyers that would absolutely love an opportunity like that..

 

'Rekd

[crazy^millman]

Yeha Rekd I felt that way when I had owners that wanted me to instuct guy to do dangouers thing I told them hell no I go to jail not you if he gets hurt. I am responsible for the things that I allow to go on becuase you may own it but I run it.

 

Crazy Millman

[Polite Luther]

quote:

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One thing for the Driver's license... Doesn't that make our roads safer because this people now can have insurance??

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What makes anyone think that a person who is willing to drive illegally will even bother to go get a license? Once they get a license, they'll be obligated to buy insurance. Ain't gonna happen...

[Rekd™]

I've been in that boat too. It's not worth it. Fire me if you want.

 

Harassment isn't as easy to get away with these days. Especially with branches of the gobment that people generally dislike. Besides, it's well worth the money you'd get. (You would, of course, have to be ABSOLUTELY sure you're legit from top to bottom)

 

'Rekd teh Don't want nunya bs here, biatch!

[F. JAVIER]

like I said, rek'd. I am misguided by my personal view and I'll tell you why...

 

I believe that Immigrants come to the US because they want a better life Different from many other people I came here because I ran away from home (the beautiful coast of Manzanillo) and wanted to see the beautiful City of Angels (you know which one), see the blondes in the street and all the stuff I see in the movies, I came illegally and found the dissapointment of what LA was instead; Pride was what kept me from calling mom and asking her for money for a ticket back. I became legal due to the amnesty law that passed by Reagan and am now a US citzen, I respect the fact that many people are dying of hunger in other parts of the world and that is the reason why I think it is a mistake to blame immigrants for the problems we are all creating in our economy. All i'm saying is that you are forgetting these are human beings who are just as honest as you and that the deal life gave them was different from yours, if you want facts to support my claim I would suggest reading "I Rigoberta Menchu" A Nobel Prize winner and a decent human being in all terms. Some people tend to uprise and join the guerrillas, som do nothing, some cross the borders and help their families, if you really knew these people you think of a better solution than to put them in the same level as the other criminals you talk about.... I am not saying that they didnt commit a crime, they do that to feed their families, is that so bad??? What would YOU do???

[F. JAVIER]

Clarification... I quoted Menchu because some days all she had to eat was a couple of tortillas and chilli, I wasntthat poor, I ate 1 glass of milk and 1 potato,(My mother gave me half, I wanted more and she gave me her half.) I know some people dont have that much and I believe they are human beings still.

[chad fisher]

I wonder if our founding fathers are rolling in there graves at what our country has become?

 

2nd What in the hell ever happened to common sense

"in reference to 1st and 5th post"

[Rekd™]

quote:

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they do that to feed their families, is that so bad??? What would YOU do???

---

I would do the same thing. Who wouldn't?

 

Again, you're missing the point.

 

The point is not that there's illegals here, it's that that damn gobment is justifying making a dollar by allowing illegals to DRIVE here!

 

'Rekd

[SledGeek]

quote:

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Our immigration policy is fundamentlaly broken. The INS backlog in dealing with those who try to follow the rules is so backed up that my mother-in-law's applicaiton for naturalization took 5 years to process. By the time they got around to it, many of the documents she had submitted had expired and had to be resubmitted. Such backlogs are the norm with the INS. It is exceptionally easy for any immagrant who is trying to folow the rules to find themselvs in technical violaiton of these mostly counter-productive laws, and therfore an 'illigal'.

---

[SledGeek]

quote:

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Our immigration policy is fundamentlaly broken. The INS backlog in dealing with those who try to follow the rules is so backed up that my Such backlogs are the norm with the INS. It is exceptionally easy for any immagrant who is trying to folow the rules to find themselvs in technical violaiton of these mostly counter-productive laws, and therfore an 'illigal'.

---

I won't pretend to be educated in the laws of immigaration, but i shudder at the thought of NOT having a bottle neck somewhere in the system.

I highly doubt our government has it set up this way on accident.Not that it is neccesarily fair, but I beleive it's effective. Imagine how much worse 911 could have been, or how many more votes a "sleazy Official" could count on, etc. I'm guessing it's part of the system of "checks and balances".

Not to mention anyone who can't read or write English shouldn't be driving in the first place.(i'm guessing this is the rule not the exception)

If i was to go to the Sec. of State to get my license , I'm willing to bet I would have to be able to read the test as well as signs,etc.

 

Not to mention an illegal alien has no "rights",

hence the term ILLEGAL. Besides,it is a PRIVELAGE to have a driver's license , not a right.

My grandparents on both side were all aliens at one time , but they had to wait their turn. Far as i'm concerned immigrants are what make this country what it is , but they earned what they have , it wasn't given to them thru bu an official looking for votes.Hell, my grandma is 96, and still doesn't have her license. Go figure !

Far as the gay rights thing goes:

I can explain drugs ,curfews, drinking,unfairness,world hunger, trig.,geom, birds and bees, car engines , pets dying,education and just about anything else to my kids, BUT NOT THIS.

 

Happy Monday everyone !

[SledGeek]

oops ,sorry bout the double post

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

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I won't pretend to be educated in the laws of immigaration, but i shudder at the thought of NOT having a bottle neck somewhere in the system.

I highly doubt our government has it set up this way on accident.

---

You give the government far more credit then they deserve. The INS is set up to fail. It cannot keep track of the people it is supposd to keep track of. It cannot even keep up with the people who go out of their way to be kept track of.

 

quote:

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Not that it is neccesarily fair, but I beleive it's effective. Imagine how much worse 911 could have been, or how many more votes a "sleazy Official" could count on, etc. I'm guessing it's part of the system of "checks and balances".

---

Several of the terrorists invovled in 9/11 could not be located by the INS, as they had not updated thier informaiton for a while. The INS had been looking for them for a few months. That dosn't sound very effective to me. It is, however, the way the INS still operates.

 

As for the sleazy politicans: they don't need illigals. With registars all over the country moving to unauditable touch-screen voting systems, all they need is a couple of good hackers or a sympathetic engineer. Becasue touch-screen systems have no paper audit trail, there is no way anyone can be sure that the vote they cast is recored the way they expect it to be.

 

quote:

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Not to mention an illegal alien has no "rights", hence the term ILLEGAL.

---

An interesting point of view, to be sure. Not in any way resembeling the principals the country was founded on, of course, but interesting.

 

Try this:

 

quote:

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

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"Unalienable rights" are rights that people have simply becasue they are people. Not becasue they were born in a particular place, or have filled in enough forms.

 

[ 10-21-2003, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: Rick Damiani ]

[Rekd™]

quote:

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"Unalienable rights" are rights that people have simply becasue they are people. Not becasue they were born in a particular place, or have filled in enough forms.

---

quote:

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Besides,it is a PRIVELAGE to have a driver's license , not a right.

---

 

'Rekd

[SledGeek]

As i am sure we could debate this all nite long, our laws like our thinking have still developed and are still the law. The issue of fairness or what once was, is encumbered by opinion. If all laws were true to form since day one we would still be burning witches and religion would dictate law. As anyone can plainly see , neither are entirely true anymore, legally.

I actually agree with some of your points , but that doesn't mean sh!t. The laws are the laws and should apply to everyone. (not saying that they do )

 

quote:

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with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

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Then technically, anybody can go antwhere any time they choose. No government can stop anyone froom going anywhere.And it would be illegal for them to do so. But that is not reality.

 

As i beleive in this quote as much as the next guy, it does not say" while breaking any laws that pertain to this matter."

And i hardly think they had the slightest clue about our mass immigration that exists today.

So with the times the laws have evolved.

quote:

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"Unalienable rights" are rights that people have simply becasue they are people. Not becasue they were born in a particular place, or have filled in enough forms.

---

I agree 100 % , but that doesn't ,by law, give you the right to be an american citizen. Which are the rights i was referring to.Those rights, I think, are the rights bestowed upon you after you become an American. I dont think those rights were talking about another country.That is part of the essence of why the settlers came here and wrote what they did.It also is not observed in all countries.

 

Once again, i love this site ! Always like to hear different opinions. That is after all part of what makes this America. Freedom of speech.And i'm sure we can all agree on that