O/T Why? I don't understand the logic behind this..

[SledGeek]

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Besides,it is a PRIVELAGE to have a driver's license , not a right.

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You get rights by living here , but you don't get a license just for living here. The privelage part is when you can drive safe and legally within the law.

Learned it hard way "hands on" like it or not !

 

[ 10-20-2003, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Midnite_Oil ]

[F. JAVIER]

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they do that to feed their families, is that so bad??? What would YOU do???

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I would do the same thing. Who wouldn't?

 

Again, you're missing the point.

 

The point is not that there's illegals here, it's that that damn gobment is justifying making a dollar by allowing illegals to DRIVE here!

 

'Rekd

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Guess i miss the point because you were putting these people in the same level as the other criminals, crackheads and lazy xxxx...

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Do you think it's ok that I should have to take food out of my families mouth to pay for these aliens to be here driving? Who's gonna insure them? Who's gonna register their car? Who's gonna pay for the accidents they're gonna cause? Me and you! (If you're legal, that is...)

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all I'm saying is that these people will now have to have insurance to register their '79 cars, pay to register them and ...pay to get their DL. and their insurance will pay for the accident.. anyway I believe I've wasted enough time in a definetely non-value added activity.. Good luck to all of you..

 

(Javier walks away thinking that he needs to seal his fence... kids homework... life is fun here in the US no pun intended, just the truth)

[Scott Bond]

If I get pulled over for speeding, I receive a ticket for Speeding (because I'm breaking the law). If I don't pay the ticket the court will issue a warrant for my arrest, and the DMV will be notified to suspend my license(because I'm breaking the law). If I continue to drive and get pulled over again I will be arrested(because I'm breaking the law).

So at that point it would be illegal for me to be on public streets ,with or with out a California Drivers license. I would have to go to court get a fine, pay it at the cashier, go to the criminal window and get a writ, and take that with my smog cert., and my prove of issuance, and then pay the DMV what ever they wanted.

National origin, or economic status is no more a factor in this than what my favorite color is.

[Lathe-Mill]

amen!

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"Unalienable rights" are rights that people have simply becasue they are people. Not becasue they were born in a particular place, or have filled in enough forms.

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so true

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Guess i miss the point because you were putting these people in the same level as the other criminals, crackheads and lazy xxxx...

 

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Do you think it's ok that I should have to take food out of my families mouth to pay for these aliens to be here driving? Who's gonna insure them? Who's gonna register their car? Who's gonna pay for the accidents they're gonna cause? Me and you! (If you're legal, that is...)

 

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once again, educate are selfs first about the subjet, then have an opinion. if like someone said, the MIB asked to leave it alone, because something is being done.

The i.r.s will let you know how many of these people are paying taxes like we all are, ask questions and you will have an answer...you will be surprise.

and by saying that if someone is illegal should not have a drivers license is wrong, then that same person has he's green card within a week or a month whatever, is ok then...why bother disscusing the subjet?

[Lathe-Mill]

let's undermind them now that they are illegals, but when they become legal...is ok.. here is your DL

hummm..

[Rick Damiani]

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with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

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Then technically, anybody can go antwhere any time they choose. No government can stop anyone froom going anywhere.And it would be illegal for them to do so. But that is not reality.

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You'll need to take that up with Mr. Jefferson, as he's the one who wrote it. what it means seem pretty clear to me.

 

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I agree 100 % , but that doesn't ,by law, give you the right to be an american citizen. Which are the rights i was referring to.Those rights, I think, are the rights bestowed upon you after you become an American.

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Unalienable rights are rights that people have simply becasue they are people. The only 'rights' that citizens posess beyond those inherent in all persons are the right to live here and the right to partisipate in our government.

 

As Rek'd pointed out, a driver's licence is not a right. Nor, for that matter, are welfare, public schools, discounted college tuition, or access to public health services, amoung others. Our system of government is based on the idea that all persons are free to presu happyness. Nowhere is it written that they will be able to catch it.

 

Should all public services be denied illigals? That depends on how serious we are about contolling illigal immigration. Given the wink-and-nod that government turns towards the real villans - busnesses that give jobs to illigals - it seems rather hipocritical to deny illigals those services.

 

Once we have made it unprofitable for busnesses to employ illigals, then we can talk reasonably about how to control the illigals that are left. Untill then, we'll likely continue to demonize illigals as a group, while being silently thankful that the illigal busboys and illigal dishwahsers in our favorite resteraunt are willing to work for $2.00/hr, cash, becasue that helps make eating there affordable.

[Lathe-Mill]

right on rick!

this great country of ours needs immigrants one way or an other, who will do the dirty job that you and i dont want to do?

last i heard they contribute to the economic big time.

[Polite Luther]

With all our manufacturing going to China, and not everyone in this country is capable (or wants to be) a brain surgeon or a physics major, the only thing left will be service jobs. And we'll have to save them for AMERICANS.

 

America first, baby.

[Tony]

I would like my Kids to have it as good if not better then I have had,

just like my parents have Wanted it for me.

Sadly our Goverment has Squandered away the Jobs and all the money.

Our Children will not have it as good as we have.

 

[ 10-21-2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[Trevor Bailey]

Very excellent point Tony. I don't know if any of you saw a posting by Jimmy Wakeford that lead to sam-usa.org , but check it out and make your complaints known. It is going to be up to the manufacturing community as a whole to stop all the free trade crap. That is exactly what it is, CRAP. Why should the US be fair when every single other country in the world takes advantage of us and Canada?!?!?!

 

Go to the web site and spend a few minutes. You are already on the internet and I do not think your bosses will mind you looking at that site. BE WARNED!!!!! YOU WILL GET VERY UPSET AND I SURE HOPE YOU DO. TAKE A STAND FOR YOURSELF AND THE REST OF THE MANUFACTURING COMMUNITY IN THE GRAND OL' US OF A!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SledGeek]

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You'll need to take that up with Mr. Jefferson, as he's the one who wrote it. what it means seem pretty clear to me.

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What it means and what really IS, are different though.

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What a poetic phrase. According to The Declaration of Independence, I am endowed by my Creator with these as "unalienable" rights. In other words, these rights can not be taken away, which is not to say that these rights can not be violated. While I believe these rights are common to all of mankind, the truth is, these rights can and often will be denied to each one of us.

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Those rights, I think, are the rights bestowed upon you after you become an American.

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let me restate this , it is unclear and wrong.Sorry to mislead.

Thomas Jefferson wrote these in a document that was supposed to separate us from the tyranny's of the rest of the world. By recognizing these in a "Declaration of Independance" it sets us apart from the rest of the world. Don't mean to say anybody outside the U.S doesn't deserve these rights.In fact i beleive just the opposite, it's just that people come here because we (in theory)recognize these rights.

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driver's licence is not a right.

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my qoute

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Given the wink-and-nod that government turns towards the real villans - busnesses that give jobs to illigals - it seems rather hipocritical to deny illigals those services.

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So what? just compound the wrongs ? eventually it'll all get swept under the rug and people will assume it's o.k. because nothing gets done.

Meanwhile many of the fears some of our compadres here on the site worry about, will take place on a much larger scale.

I think our governments responsibility is to FIRST take care of it's own LEGAL citizens, then worry about the rest of the humanitarian issues that exist.

In reality it will go whichever way our economy needs it too!

 

I'm done, sorry for the length.

[TimHollis]

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TAKE A STAND FOR YOURSELF AND THE REST OF THE MANUFACTURING COMMUNITY IN THE GRAND OL' US OF A!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Absolutely!!!!! I couldn't agree more! But it's not just China, it's the whole dam World, Mexico-India-The Banana Republics, the Caribbean’s, and so-on & so-on.

 

NO WORKERS COMP, OSHA, EPA, HAZMAT,UN-EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, LIABILITY INSURANCE, FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE ACT.

And everything else that can put a guy out of buissness. Like Law-suits for age/race/sex discrimination.

 

Who let this happen? MY GOVERNMENT!!!!!

20 years ago, the largest job market in NY was manufacturing, today it's one of the smallest, under 400,000 people employed in this field for the year 2000.

 

I am in the Dominican Republic working for an American Fortune 500 company. In an American Free Trade Zone. The people I pass on my way to work......

Cutler Hammer, AVON, Allen Bradley, G.E. power equipment, Johnson & Johnson, TYCO INDUSTRIES.

And many others, in this park established by the AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, yep my tax dollars were hard at work all those years.

 

Most of these companies have 500 to 800 employees, earning about $150. @ Month for a machine operator, operating machines like chip shooters, for manufacture of PC-boards for INTEL, and Wave Solder machines, assembly people earn a little less.

 

And while the economy has collapsed here in the last 2 years, and their version of the Federal Reserve( BANCO CENTRAL) is down to 75 million, in U.S. dollars, guess who came to the rescue with a loan for 1.25 Billion dollars??? WITH NO HOPE OF EVER SEEING IT BACK!!George Bush & the IMF. Again there are soooo busy with those U.S.tax dollars, they can just add it onto the 87 billion they are taking out of future taxes for rebuilding Iraq.

 

As I work here, and my weekly paycheck is direct deposited from HQ in NY, to my NY bank account. I still pay S.S. and Medicare, but $0 on the State & Federal, because I am working outside the U.S. 320 days a year. The only thing that gets me through the day is, Just 2 years, 3months, till I go home, debt free, no mortgage, and enough CASH saved to retire!

 

Will I? No. At 40 with 3 kids still growing, I will still work, but not because I HAVE too.

 

My day-to-day life here, was all set up by my and your, U.S. Tax dollars.

 

I don't like it, but what’s a guy to do??

 

Thanks for letting me vent

Tim H.

 

[ 10-21-2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: TimHollis ]

[Trevor Bailey]

Nice verbage Tim. I encourage all to take the time to visit the site I named above. There are agreements in the works as we speak/read here now that is only gong to further hurt our business in the USA. You can read about it all at www.sam-usa.org. Please take the time and let your voice be heard.

[Rick Damiani]

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So what? just compound the wrongs ? eventually it'll all get swept under the rug and people will assume it's o.k. because nothing gets done.

Meanwhile many of the fears some of our compadres here on the site worry about, will take place on a much larger scale.

I think our governments responsibility is to FIRST take care of it's own LEGAL citizens, then worry about the rest of the humanitarian issues that exist.

In reality it will go whichever way our economy needs it too!

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All I am trying to point out is that the real problem is not the illigal aliens. The real problem is the employers who hire them. Unless and until we get serious about dealing with those employers, including being willing to pay more for the goods and services no longer subsideized by illigal labor, we need to accept that there will be illigals here, and that those illigals also have unalienable rights.

 

It's all well and good to talk about what ought to be. But focusing too closely on what ought to be keeps us from seeing what really is. What ought to be is simple black and white. Unfortunatly, those shades are in short supply in the real world.

[Brendan P]

I have been really trying to stay outta this one.

The subject of illegal aliens with driving licenses just gets my blood boiling.

I am soo sick and tired of people worrying about "other peoples rights" especially if they don't belong here in the first place!

 

I would just like to know 1 country in this world that is dumb enough to want to issue me a drivers license when I am there on illegal terms.

Only here in the good 'ol USA with morons in power of our goverment (gobment as 'rekd would say)would this ever happen.

 

You almost can't believe it!

What is WRONG with this country?????

[SledGeek]

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and that those illigals also have unalienable rights

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Agreed. Except having a drivers license isn't one of them. Short & sweet.

[john316]

quote:

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You might want to take a closer look at Genesis 18. Pay particular attention to the exchange between God and Abraham that starts at Genesis 18:23 and continues to the end of the chapter.

_______________________________________________

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this Rick. If you start Genesis 18 at verse 20, you will discover that there was a great outcry against xxxx and Gomorrah, and because their sin was very grave, God was going down to investigate them. Abraham asked God if he would destroy the righteous with the wicked, and if there were fifty righteous in xxxx, would He spare it. God said He would spare the city if there were fifty righteous. Abraham, knowing there weren't fifty righteous men in xxxx, continued to bargain with God until he got down to 10 righteous. There were not even 10 righteous in xxxx, so God sent two angels down to deliver Lot, his wife, and two daughters from the destruction of xxxx. Then God destroyed xxxx. GEN 19:13 "For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it."

 

Rick, there are many other bible verses that specifically single out homosexuality as an abomination against God. While God does hate the sin of homosexuality, he does love the homosexual just as much as the rest of His creation, and desires for them to be reconciled with Him. It is not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

 

I'm sorry if I've turned this message into a sermon, but it is important that we keep the word of God in the proper context.

 

Peace, love, and God bless.

 

John

[Hardmill]

The fact that we are christians does not keep us

or anyone else from suffering Gods wrath. As John

stated its the sin not the sinner. We are all loved

by God and he just wants us closer to him.

I had an uncle who recently died of aids and it took his death to bring him to christ. And even though I never approved of his lifestyle I did and do still love him (and this was before knowing Gods word).

I have come to believe that we may not like everything that God has in store for us, but he's in charge and knows whats best.

 

PEACE

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program:

[john316]

I thought I might get a response from you on this one Hardmill. How are you doing brother.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle. His death must have grieved your family greatly. I am extremely blessed to hear about his salvation, and I am sure God is well pleased. Just as the thief on the cross next to Jesus was in the last hours of his life when he realized Jesus was the Messiah, because of his belief in Jesus, your uncle saw the truth and was saved by the mercy and grace of God. Hallelujah!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

... and another thing about when the angels went into xxxx and Gomorrah to rescue Lot and his wife, the townspeople tried to have relations with the angels. Lot offered his daughter but they would not accept that, they wanted the men. Clearly a debase society that is no longer in existance due to it's depravity. Such is the road our society is on if we continue to allow such immoral behaviour to permeate our culture and gain acceptance.

 

Rick, proper exegesis is CRITICAL for a correct interpretation of any given passage. I've read through the Bible and have yet to see scripture condone sin of any kind be it sexual or otherwise.

 

JM2C

[crazy^millman]

Well goes back to my favorite passage a time and place for everything. Just because this is the country it is, does it mean we make laws to allow things to be leagal to do for illegal people. If is going to be ok for thet illegal immgrant to get a licence then where will it stop. I mean they will have ti have insurace to get that licence right they will also have to have a SS number ot get that licence which will also mean they will have a registered car in which to take that test as well as an adress in which to put on the licence. I can see it now Crazy Millman I live on nowwhere street in Anywhere state america. I mean wit ha driver licence you can rent an apratment, rent a car, buy a gun at a gun show, buy thing that terriost would need tp make bombs and 1000's of thing that should be hard if they are illegal but yet we just make it easier for any one with the drive to do something wrong in this country more ability to do it. I just have ot shake my head at the guys wh otake any comment against this personal cuase I do get any breaks or nothing in life just like alot of other people in here. I am sorry if the country you came from was a bad one I am very gald to have you here and welcome anyone that can be here but there are many legal ways to become legal. I know all about the INS I will problay deal with them for the Next 20 years so, and I do the same thing and sit and wait in line and do all the things for my wife that is needed but I do it legal and keep everything in that legal and that is right and it will be right.

 

Crazy Millman

[Polite Luther]

U.S. rights & laws apply to U.S. citizens. Who said they apply to non-citizens? I can't find that written anywhere...

[Greg McKay]

thanks that was a fun read

 

took some courage to post that picture

[Rekd™]

Yeah, it went in a few other directions than intended, but was fun none the less.

 

quote:

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took some courage to post that picture

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Actually, it wasn't courage, it was disgust and being sick and tired of getting crapped on as a Californian. I swear the next thing you know we're gonna need a permit to pewp!

 

'Rekd

[EZ3PUTT]

When our politicians pass a law giving all the illegal imigrants amnesty we won't have to worry about it. If the politicians had to live like the common man things would be different. They do a term in congress and are entitled to a pension of a couple hundred grand a year FOR LIFE. Not to mention the lifetime medical. My parents spent 50 years working and try to live on their savings and a social security check...WTF. My parents spend over $700 per month on medical insurance and perscriptions. While an ILLIGAL imigrant can walk into a doctors office and CANNOT be refused service. Who pays for these charges? do the doctors inflate their charges because they know the Medicare system is going to pay them. I think that many of our elected officials (hell let's throw lawyers in with them) are so crooked and low that they could hide in the shaddow of a corkscrew. I sure would like it if our politicans would pass out kisses before they screw us. Just my opinion.