Lean Manufacturing

[GoetzInd]

 

 

Nice dog and pony show! But when it takes hours to change a machine set up for one part because the "software said so"... Makes no sense asset all!! 

This cracked me up. So did the particle board bit. Thanks guys! 

 

Mike

[oneyankfan1]

I've been to you seminars. We've sorted, set in order, shined and those other S's. Ive spent thousands on kaizen events. Nice dog and pony show! But when it takes hours to change a machine set up for one part because the "software said so"... Makes no sense asset all!!

You are just one of those guys that it would never work with because of your attitude towards the subject. You are stuck in the "old school" mode. If you really tried to concentrate on a machining cell and do it right you would succeed. Take two machines, maybe three (depending on your run times) set them at 90 degrees to each other or in a "c" shape if there are three, you must make all tooling modular, either with quick change vise jaws on hydraulic vises, or fixtures on a grid pattern. ( we used these http://www.kurtworkholding.com/hydraulic-vise-base-assembly-p-1024-l-en.htmlbecause we could use jaws or put fixtures on the mandrel style bolts for the solid jaw for the first position) then on your second machine, either 3, 4, or 5 axis set it up to where all tooling is on a grid pattern and it is made to where an operator can place it on a given location in the grid and just check it with a shim to see if its down. There is no finding offsets in any of these steps, everything is programmed from the same point, in our case it was machine home. All of the tools are standardized in every cell, so parts can be moved from one cell to the next seamlessly, the process is the same in every cell so there is no change if one cell goes down just move it to another. If the tools don't fit the part package then you create another cell, you don't ever change the cell to conform to something else. No editing is done on the floor, all changes are made in programming. There are performance studies done on tools so they perform the same on every cut. Takt times of your machining operations are critical, if you have a long running third op, then do first and second ops on the first machine and the third op on the last, the operator is deburring the part on a down draft table while both machines are running ( which is set at the end of the second machine), if it works right then by the time you are done burring the part and put it in the tumbler you go to the first machine and load it hit start, go to the second load it hit start, debur - repeat. When the last part of the order is done on the first machine you set up for the next job, which should take no more than 8 minutes chip to chip in sticking with SMED, then the second machine is done the same, so by the time you burr the last part on the first order, the first part on the next order last op is running. And so on. You buy your own parts with faro or roamer arms print out the report and put it with the work order (which for us was one page with just bar codes on it). We did this all day every day in a company with 100 employees, they apply this to every part they do, even tooling. They are paperless to boot, every cell has a touch screen computer with all setup info on it, and all programs come from the server which is hooked up to ebery machine.I have lived it first hand, so for people to say it wont work irks me. They just don't know and will never put the effort in to make it work. I know one thing for sure no part Cox Machine does could ever be under bid by any of your shops and you guys make good money on it, they do that very thing, bid parts and people think they are loosing their tail on, but they make money hand over fist. Their scrap rate is less than .5% as a company, yes operators are dumb, and it is very fast paced and hard work, you don't just sit on your but and read a book, but it dosen't matter monkeys can do it. I went to work there during the recession when my shop closed, I thought it was stupid too, but then I saw it work and was blown away. I fight it now where I work but, its normal, people just don't know. They do this on 3 axis parts to 5 axis complex parts. So just know that it does work it just dosent work when it dosent go top to bottom - bottom to top. http://www.coxmachine.com/capabilities/strategies.html check it out.

[The Cathedral]

How many people here work in medium-high production shops with repeat parts, and how many work in job shops?

 

I work in a low qty run job shop. Our part portfolio consists of thousands of parts, and even though we are a tier 1 supplier for A Major Oilfield Company, we still have many parts that we only have an order for every few years. Our process is (in my opinion) far from efficient, yet I when I read all these success stories using lean manufacturing techniques, as nice and cool as they sound, I don't know how I could implement them here. I'm just wondering how many people are in the same position as me so maybe I can get some ideas.

[Rstewart]

Where I'm at, (short run defense work) It seems damn near impossible to implement most of this.

 

I totally see where these processes would be a big money maker / time saver in most production shops.  I would love to work somewhere where I could help implement this, I think it would be fun and interesting.

Here I have the responsibility to requisition the material, the tools, plan process, program, set-up, run, inspect,  and deburr.  

 

Who's gonna be sawing the material and deburring when I'm trying to load the machines and inspect said parts??

[oneyankfan1]

its not what you do - its how you do it, you can apply the described process above to 1 part or 1000 part orders, aluminum or hard metals, things you do everyday or things you do once every five years. The implementation is always going to be the same. If you find waste you have to find a way to over come it and change it into a fast accurate process. Just try to look at everything through the same lens.

[oneyankfan1]

Where I'm at, (short run defense work) It seems damn near impossible to implement most of this.

 

I totally see where these processes would be a big money maker / time saver in most production shops.  I would love to work somewhere where I could help implement this, I think it would be fun and interesting.

Here I have the responsibility to requisition the material, the tools, plan process, program, set-up, run, inspect,  and deburr.  

 

Who's gonna be sawing the material and deburring when I'm trying to load the machines and inspect said parts??

 either you will and you will have to balacne your takt times, or you get the material pre ordered to that size. I would sugest a cnc band saw to suit your needs while running production. that way the machine is cutting while you do everything else.

[Rstewart]

Yeah, true true.

 

I can see me now, speed up work flow and process along with modularity.  Here comes the supervisor and says Wow you got all that done already???  Yeah, so whats next??  Well...... we're  still waiting on purchasing and approval for the other order of material and tools, I guess just hang tight for awhile.  Yup, that's this place   

[Patternmaker706]

That's how it works... Upper management loves to force lean processes on manufacturing but they hate applying it to other departments. 

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

That's how it works... Upper management loves to force lean processes on manufacturing but they hate applying it to other departments. 

 

Now that I have seen way too often.

 

You can judge how serious a company is about Lean and efficiency by reviewing their IT department.

 

I have seen a multi-billion dollar company have a project cancelled because IT didn't give it's approval to a project already

given the green light by a senior level VP.

 

I saw one project have to increase it's budget and install RS-232 serial ports for a new cell because IT wouldn't allow

a  network-ready machine on the company network directly and wouldn't allow a PC on the floor as a proxy.

 

If IT can't close any help request within 6 hours, you are wasting your time trying to get them to embrace lean concepts.

IT should only be a support role, helping others do their jobs.

When it is allowed to change the management of the company, it's time to leave.

[Patternmaker706]

Ha,  IT department problems could be a completely new thread...

 

Our PC's use a redirected drive for my documents folder... they changed the server and all my programs crapped out.  I got X7 back like I like it but X8 is still not right.  Vericut runs on only one of my machines.  IT request after IT request...

[Joe788]

Looking back now, I still feel that the customer cells with the one operator was a huge waste of money, as the machine efficiency was p!ss poor. I reckon the investment in machinery alone was $0.6 mill per cell, where most of it was idle for most of the time. And they had 5 or 6 cells.

Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand that set-up reduction is king, and that single piece flow can work, and this customer obviously didn’t care about machine repayments – they had an allocated budget for implementation and that was that.

I think they could have been far more efficient by small batching.

 

This is why it's impossible to try to point to one version of "lean" that works for everybody, or for anybody to claim their version is the right version. That horrifically inefficient cell would never work for you guys, because you're selling that part for $5 dollars, and trying to earn a living in the process. But when an OEM does it - that horrifically inefficient cell looks brilliant - because they aren't trying to make $5 dollars on that shaft. They're trying to get that $5 dollar shaft to the assembly department a day sooner, so they can ship a $5 million dollar landing gear a day sooner. They don't need 5 of them sitting on a shelf, because they aren't shipping 5 of them that week. They don't want to wait an extra day while you build 5 of the previous part number, because they only need one of the previous part number.

 

A buddy of mine owns a very successful business, moving about $10 million a year, where they machine and fabricate their own product line comprising several thousand catalog part numbers. They have a gantry loaded B axis lathe, four bar fed sub spindle Y axis lathes, 3 gantry loaded dual spindle dual turret lathes, two palletech systems, palletized lasers,  robot welders, etc.  Most of the parts they make, are made in full year quantities. This might be 10pcs, or 500pcs - and also depending on raw material cost.   Trying to "single part flow" and "make to order" would be a complete joke in this shop. When some guy calls up and wants to order a bracket for $20 dollars, you can't single piece flow that through a laser, a press brake, and a powder coater - and still sell it for $20 dollars. Not to mention, the customer would cancel the order if they found out it wasn't going to ship that day.

 

There are soooooo many variables involved in manufacturing, the initial emphasis just needs to be on common sense, continuous improvement, and reducing wasted energy (via the former two). Trying to apply somebody else's complete "lean" system, is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Modern Machine Shop has had a couple stories on a shop up in Washington called ProCNC (Josh here on the board works there). They take lean to the extreme, but it's tailored fantastically to exactly what they're doing, and how they want to operate.

[Newbeeee™]

_{Joe - Nicely summed up}

[The Cathedral]

Very well said, and illustrates where a lot of the problems--and disdain--for JIT and lean comes from. We do have a lot of parts that we JIT, one-off shafts and valves made of highly exotic material, zero stock parts. We used to route them through different machines in different departments and it was a waste. We went out and bought a Macturn and it paid for itself in less than a year. So we bought another. And then a Multus. And they are paid off because they are designed for and thrive in the single part flow environment. When you're selling an expedited shaft worth over $50k it's not hard to see where to spend money to save money.

 

The problems comes with the rest of our jobs. Decreasing cost comes from increasing quantity. What works in our Cell's is absurd to think of doing in our Swiss department. I know there is major room for improvement but figuring out where it is and how to do it is not so cut and dried as some think. 

[oneyankfan1]

There is a cellular solution for everything, you just need to apply the principle to everything. There is no cant, there is only process improvement. Only solutions no doubt.

[Joe788]

There is a cellular solution for everything, you just need to apply the principle to everything. There is no cant, there is only process improvement. Only solutions no doubt.

 

Just because it's a solution, doesn't mean it's always the best solution, the most cost effective solution, or the most profitable solution. Different industries, different types of parts, different types of customers - etc, all require a different approach. Just here in my shop, we have completely different processing methods for different customers from different industries. The mindset that works on a $4,000 manifold, ordered in QTY 2, is polar opposite from the mindset that works on $20 dollar aluminum enclosures that require polishing, anodizing, laser etching - in 500pc quantities.

 

The only common denominator is that continuous improvement, common sense, and reduction of wasted energy is a driving factor in how everything is handled.

 

One of our newest and most profitable customers is a large corporation that bought the privately owned machine shop who was their largest and best supplier. They ran the internal shop right into the ground, and chased away everybody with any talent with over-the-top lean initiatives that threw all common sense out the window. 

[oneyankfan1]

Just because it's a solution, doesn't mean it's always the best solution, the most cost effective solution, or the most profitable solution. Different industries, different types of parts, different types of customers - etc, all require a different approach. Just here in my shop, we have completely different processing methods for different customers from different industries. The mindset that works on a $4,000 manifold, ordered in QTY 2, is polar opposite from the mindset that works on $20 dollar aluminum enclosures that require polishing, anodizing, laser etching - in 500pc quantities.

 

The only common denominator is that continuous improvement, common sense, and reduction of wasted energy is a driving factor in how everything is handled.

 

One of our newest and most profitable customers is a large corporation that bought the privately owned machine shop who was their largest and best supplier. They ran the internal shop right into the ground, and chased away everybody with any talent with over-the-top lean initiatives that threw all common sense out the window. 

we just disagree

[Joe788]

we just disagree

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying in general - only with the idea that the same cellular attitude is ideal for for all parts and customers. Sure,  you can put three $80,000 verticals in a C shape, making 1 or 2 parts at a time, with a guy walking in between them for two weeks - as long as you're not competing against a guy loading a $300,000 horizontal and walking away for an hour to load other machines, and coming back to 16 finished parts.

[mike93]

look at the automotive industry all lean, now go down to the dealership how many cars on the lot, its more about ware the money is sitting on the books, inventory kills.

[chris m]

Somewhere, somebody ALWAYS has inventory; you just don't want it to be you.

 

C

[crazy^millman]

I showed a programmer manager how the 12 hours a week they are wasting on lockups and stalls and crashes because of bad computers is costing their company $212K a year in losses with the 4 programmers. Management is still not sure they should buy the programmers new computers.

[mike93]

lean means saving  money and time in a dance, min batch over max batch is calculated for the most savings for threw put, you need to look at all  aspects from buying steel at low price and sitting on it for a year to buying it one day at a time and paying shipping, its  a dance you play to make your company money, production is production if you have to sit on it to long ,the gain in production and savings  is lost. but saving time anywhere in a company is good.  Time management study's of every employe is a good thing . Time is money.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

I showed a programmer manager how the 12 hours a week they are wasting on lockups and stalls and crashes because of bad computers is costing their company $212K a year in losses with the 4 programmers. Management is still not sure they should buy the programmers new computers.

 

Incredible.

 

Even if they bought each of them $5K workstations, it would be money well spent.

They'd get it back in a day.

[Sticky]

I showed a programmer manager how the 12 hours a week they are wasting on lockups and stalls and crashes because of bad computers is costing their company $212K a year in losses with the 4 programmers. Management is still not sure they should buy the programmers new computers.

 

That is madness.

 

I budget to spend $8000 for two computers every 4 years, that are dedicated to cadcam, for one guy. The other is backup in case one has a problem. I don't understand how you can afford not to do this.

[Guest]

With a REAL 5-Axis machine, common tooling, common workholding and common material sizes, a customer could call you at 9:00am, and depending on the current schedule, you coud have that part run or running by lunchtime if it had already been run before.

 

[Sticky]

With a REAL 5-Axis machine, common tooling, common workholding and common material sizes, a customer could call you at 9:00am, and depending on the current schedule, you coud have that part run or running by lunchtime if it had already been run before.

 

We do this on our FMS, if we have a couple bars of material in stock we can be running in an 30min or less, most of that time is sawing... Sometimes we even keep a little bit of material pre sawn in our wip area for certain customers that are known to have emergencies. Then all we do is call the pallet over load the stock and add it to the schedule