Creative tool numbering

[Bob W.]

One of the things we are doing as part of moving to the cell system is changing our tool numbers to 8 digit.  We only have four digit numbers right now and with 8 digits it seems that a lot of additional information could be stored in the tool's number.  Say a tool has a number of 12345678.  1234 would be the functional tool number, 8 would be the individual tool number and that leaves digits 5, 6, and 7 to carry information such as if 5=1 it would ALWAYS break check this tool, etc...  Just some crazy ideas and I was curious if anyone else has done anything like this.  We also have 740 tools in our three libraries (Mastercam, Vericut, and tool storage system) and changing all of these will be a HUGE task.  Any thoughts on that?  I'd be interested to hear how other shops went about a transition like this though I assume it doesn't happen very often.

 

The main reason for the change is the cell uses FNT (functional tool number) and ITN (individual tool number).  BOTH need to be globally unique numbers so if I had a tool that was currently T0063 and I had three of them they would now be ITN 00630001, 00630002, and 00630003.  I guess the FTN could still be 0063.  The idea is to make it intuitive so operators can easily correlate the ITN and FTN.  It is all a little confusing and I'd love to hear some input on the subject.

[AMCNitro]

I need a "smoking brain" smiley for this one...

[guitar]

We could not do anything that complicated where I work. Where I work they still have not figured out that probes are not cutting tools.

[jeff]

We could not do anything that complicated where I work. Where I work they still have not figured out that probes are not cutting tools.

You use the disposable kind too?

[Mic6]

Can't help you, I only have 24 tools 

 

We could not do anything that complicated where I work. Where I work they still have not figured out that probes are not cutting tools.

  Yikes

[Colin Gilchrist]

Hi Bob,

 

Take a look at the function 'plcval' in the post documentation. This function can read the value of a "place digit", either left or right of the decimal. (Input is a string value that holds a "number" like 123.456).

 

Using that function, it is easy to extract the "value" of each digit. So that way you can setup your post to "trigger" the correct output you want, based on the setting contained inside the 8 digit number. (Technically your "number" as a "string", would just wind up having the decimal place at the end of the string...)

[crazy^millman]

Bob, they all use XML correct? That would be a pretty simple script to query the number and then make logic to decide how you ant to change the format to. Jim Varco out of MCAMNW might be a good resource local to you. Others might have some good ideas like Zoober and themachinist(Banana Mouth)

 

I helped develop a process with one company that use ranges for the types of tools. You could go a step further where 45000 to 45500 are Bull endmill or you could go by size of tool and then use a number as the type of tool. Let the number place control the type or 2 places of numbers. Sky is really the limit, but is going to come down to documentation, training and enforcement of the process. Anything one person does is a lot easier to control than what more than one person does. Develop the process and put it aside. Revisit it a couple times a week for a month taking step away from it. Make notes and get different ideas. Once you have outlined all the different types of tools and methods of machining then add places for adding in areas. Don't lock yourself in with no room to expand or add. Also think about adding turning tools to the process the more you get into 5 Axis you will see the things you can do with a turning tool on parts when you get that capability never been able to do with just milling. Never know might add a Mill/Turn to your cell and then if you have not allowed for it in your system will need to start over. Give it thought and really think about how far you want to define it. Sounds like a very cool project and one that will be a defining change in your direction moving forward as a company.

 

BTW nice Makino article about your shop.

[Bob W.]

Hi Bob,

 

Take a look at the function 'plcval' in the post documentation. This function can read the value of a "place digit", either left or right of the decimal. (Input is a string value that holds a "number" like 123.456).

 

Using that function, it is easy to extract the "value" of each digit. So that way you can setup your post to "trigger" the correct output you want, based on the setting contained inside the 8 digit number. (Technically your "number" as a "string", would just wind up having the decimal place at the end of the string...)

Thanks for the info.  Have you ever heard of tool numbers being used like this?

[crazy^millman]

Thanks for the info.  Have you ever heard of tool numbers being used like this?

 

Yes Mazak used and I still think does in an EIA format does it that way when using Mazatrol to control the tools. I used a number system like this on the Integrex about 9 years ago. I would use the decimal for things like roughing, finishing, drilling and such for the tools. Really slick way to communicate the tool to the operators and the machine once you have wrapped your brain around a system and document it and then enforce it.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Not specifically, but I think it is a great idea. I've used "Tool Groups" before so that Tool Life can be tracked, and the machine will have a set of tools (2 or more), that are part of the tool group. Once the tool's "life" has been exceeded, then the machine will change tools to the next tool available in the group.

 

I don't see any reason that you couldn't make the 8 digit number actually contain more information than just the "tool group" identity. I like the idea that the group number would also contain "flags" that would indicate what type of laser routines to run.

[bd41612]

Hi Bob,

    The FTN does not need to be unique.  You can have multiple ITN's within the same FTN.  The FTN is your tool # that you would have in your tool library.  The ITN is the one that needs to be unique, think of it as a serial number.  The pot number is self explanatory and the PTN (Program Tool Number) is the FTN that is currently active that the machine will use when that FTN is called.  The other identical FTN's will have their PTN's displayed as 0.  Confused?  How you structure your tool numbering is up to you.  But, you want to do it in a way that conveys the information you want to pass on.  I wish I had 8 digits tool numbers.  Anyways an idea you can use:

FTN 1-999 misc. tools

1000-1999 drills

2000-3999 endmills

4000-4999 reamers etc.

 

Lets pretend that you have endmill # 2015 in your library.

FTN: 00002015

ITN:  00002015

 

A sister tool,

FTN: 00002015

ITN:  00012015

 

Another sister tool,

FTN: 00002015

ITN:  00022015

 

 

 

 

Same tool in a long holder 15" from gage line,

FTN: 01502015

ITN:  01502015

 

A sister tool,

FTN: 01502015

ITN:  01512015

Another sister tool,

FTN: 01502015

ITN:  01522015

 

 

Pick a digit, and decide what it means to you, leave room for expansion, you will always be adding tools.  If you put the time in up front, your MMC will love you for it!

[Bob W.]

Thanks for the input.  You are right, the FTN is not globally unique on the machine.  Right now we use duplicate tools on the machine but the machine tracks them so we don't use ITN.  The cell controller needs ITN however and that is the basis for the change.  I like your idea of adding the 5th digit to define the ITN as in the second example or tool 2015.  This would be very easy to implement and wouldn't change our tool libraries at all since ITN only needs to be done on the machine, not in Mastercam.  One thing I just thought of is if we renumber our tools we will need to change every tool in every program and that would be a huge project.  Great ideas though and I'll keep noodling them over.

[bd41612]

I spent 3 or 4 hours thinking about it in my hotel room down in Mason, OH when I was there.  I went thru many scenarios until I got something that I liked.

[Zoober]

Will you be using RFID tool ID tags of any type? Crib software such as TDM or Cribmaster?

If so, you will prolly want to start there, to easily integrate those into your scheme. You may already be using something that will translate to 8 digits fairly readily.

If not, try to make it expandable, as Ron says. You can include stuff like custom tools, shape, type, material, job, ITN, mfg., etc. Just make sure it works how YOU work.

 

Edit:

Maybe contact Toby wood at Makino for his ideas on what others with the controllers are using.

I'll PM you his email.

[Bob W.]

Will you be using RFID tool ID tags of any type? Crib software such as TDM or Cribmaster?

If so, you will prolly want to start there, to easily integrate those into your scheme. You may already be using something that will translate to 8 digits fairly readily.

If not, try to make it expandable, as Ron says. You can include stuff like custom tools, shape, type, material, job, ITN, mfg., etc. Just make sure it works how YOU work.

 

Edit:

Maybe contact Toby wood at Makino for his ideas on what others with the controllers are using.

I'll PM you his email.

No RFID but I do use Western Tool's FTS for tool storage which is pretty similar to Cribmaster.  I got the PM and will send Toby an email as soon as I can get my head above water.