Forum member input, please.

[Slick]

I would like to take a little "survey" of all the different training facilities out there for MasterCAM. My compnay is currently looking to establish a system to send employees for "certification". The location is irrelevant, what is important is the "depth" of training that they can receive. Please let me know, and thanks.

 

Oh, and if there is a link to a post similar, I apologize, feel free to share the link with me.

[Eeyore-nonhuman forum member]

All this "crazifications" are B$ and complete waste of time .

The real knowledge differs from this nice diplomas that can anyone get a bunch .

That`s what I told to my friend teh Owl today and to the Rabbit.

[Toolfab]

Slick, have you contacted your dealer. I took my classes at the dealer, they were great. Also check into the tech schools in your area to see if they are teaching MC.

 

 

Hope that helps...

[Müřlıń®]

My personal favorite is Murlin's school of hard knocks

 

J/K......

 

I think the resellers that offer classes are probably the best place to go.

 

As far as being certified.....If you were a master at using Mastercam, you probably wouldn't end up teaching the subject in a colleage.

You will probably be using your knowledge to make a buck.

 

So I dont think anyone could get their Masters-in-CAM in or not.

 

About 10 years ago, you gould go to PROE-school for about 9k. I think it was a 2 week course.

 

I know several people that went and got their "certifacation". It still took them several months to year to be good at it.

 

So hands on is always going to be the best teacher.

 

 

JM2C

 

 

Murlin

[Toolfab]

I agree that hands on is the best, but you do need a place to start. If you have never programmed before, taking a class isnt a bad idea to at least get familiar with the terms and the were-a-bouts of things.

[Eeyore-nonhuman forum member]

Murlin !

 

You are absolutly right ,my friend !

Education -yes ,learning -yes ,hard work -yes ,and who gives a damn to certification ?

Well if they are sending you just tell them you prefere Hawaii or Alaska .

Never was there

 

[ 01-20-2004, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Eeyore ]

[Reece L Gibson]

At our school we offer a pre-apprenticeship program for a person wanting to start career in the metal working industry. If they stick it out the can walk out with a two-year associate of applied science degree.The next step is a certificate in CNC programming,they are 16,four hour sessions for each the lathe and the Mill.

The next step is Mastercam level one which is 16 4 hour sessions.Then move on to Mastercam Level 2, which cover surfaces and surface Machining,again 16 4 hour sessions.From there we offer a 4-5 axis class 16 four hour sessions.If interested we offer a Lathe class for 40 hrs that covers C and Y axis programming for Live tooling.

All classes we machine parts(except the 5 axis, I am working on that).We currently have a Leadwell CNC lathe,a 16x20 Fadal with a 4th axis,along with a Hitachi Seiki Hicell 23II C and Y axis.

We also offer a Post class for 40 hrs long opon request.

I usually do not say much But I was in industry for 25 years before I became an Instructor.I worked all the way up to running a 24-7 operation that made aircraft parts before the College offered me a job.I run credit classes as well as contract classes where I come out to your plant and program your parts on your machines.

Money,I make pretty good money and no one is on my butt about what I am doing, as long as there are no complaints from customers, they don't care.

We currently offer Mastercam Certification level 1 and will flag ship level 2 very soon. We are in the process of becoming Autodesk Inventor certified within the next few weeks in Dallas.

Right now I taech a robot programming class for Harley Davidson for the welders. We became NIMs Certified about 2 yrs ago.We have a state of the art shop with good tooling.

I am happy in what I do and to me that's what counts.

[iowajim62]

Hi Slick,

 

I was privileged enough to receive my Basic Mastercam Certificate from Corporate Training.

 

Our company paid to have 17 people go thru the class here in our shop. The Mastercam Instructor flew out and spent a week here showing us everything we wanted and more. Can't say enough good things about proper training with a good

teacher.

JM2C

 

David Moskey is the man. (tryin for a shirt here guys) yeah I know suckin up lol

[email protected]

Phone (860) 875-5006

Fax (860) 872-1565

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...If you were a master at using Mastercam, you probably wouldn't end up teaching the subject in a colleage...

---

Not necessarrily.

 

I taught Mastercam for over 3 years for the fun of it, to share my knowledge and experience. Now I have another little one on the way so I stopped teaching. Sure I could have made 3x the money using that time to Contract Program but teaching and sharing my craft was more important.

 

JM2C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Oh, and as for Certification, you are real close to Mastercam's Educational division. They're in Gig Harbour Washington.

 

I'm not really too hip on Certs. All it usually means is you showed up for some classes. What training company is going to charge somebody if they did not/could not pass a final exam? They wouldn't be around too long. You pay your money, you get a cert. That's usually how it works.

 

I posess no certs. Sure I've taken a ton of classes but no cert. I'd almost bet a paycheck I could ace ANY Mastercam cert exam.

 

JM2C IMNSHO

[jrykrl]

the NTMA was good for me!

Jer

[Slick]

Thanks a lot for all the input. The certification part wasn't really the issue, but I see all of your points. I guess the end result is contacting our dealer. But feel free to give me more input. All in all we just want more people with the knowledge of MasterCAM.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Well if you're interviewing candidates, and you like them enough, get a DWG of one of your easy parts. Have them import it, model it, put some toolpaths on it. Put them in a room by themselves, with some music in the background and give them a prescribed period of time and see what they've done.

 

That's a ton better than any piece of toilet paper, errr Certification.

 

The interview where I I had my first full time programming job, I got a suftace model, and he wanted me to program a few toolpaths on it while he watched. I was a bit nervous but hey, I got the job.

 

In the words of the Mighty Cruiser Warrior "Show up and cut it!".

 

JM2C

[iowajim62]

Hey James,

 

Why all the negative ?

Pretty good slams coming from a former "Mastercam Instructor".

 

quote:

---

That's a ton better than any piece of toilet paper, errr Certification.

---

That is not gonna help anybody "teaching" Mastercam to earn a living by saying this kind of stuff. In fact some people who read this Forum and wanted to get Certificates for their people who were taught Mastercam may not do so now that they have read your replies. The Certificate isn't really the issue, in fact the piece of paper is more of a pride thing for the people than anything else. And as a former "teacher" of Mastercam you really should think about how the students faces light-up when they get that "stupid piece of paper". It was more of a pride thing for me as well to get one "not anymore not any less". I don't need a piece of paper to cut parts but it don't hurt either. So basically what I wanted to know is why are you slamming Certificates for Mastercam if you claim to be one of the "Mastercam Instructors" ?

 

Oh yeah I see you took your "Instructor" label off your signature too, whats up with that ?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

It's nothing against Professors/Instructors and the like, it's just I'm seeing an alarming trend. "Paper over substance" I like to call it and this was the perfect arena to air that.

 

The certification "business" is broken, and I don't know that there is really any way to fix it. I see people waving their certs around and really all it means is that they went to class (probably had decent attendance) to get that piece of paper. But then when youask them to do something very basic, you get the deer in the headlights look, or the "... my instrutor didn't cover that...".

 

Over the last 3+ years while I taught at a local Trade School, I saw every skill level imaginable. From "What's a mouse???" to "... in the PMX block in the post, I need to ..." and everything in between. By and large 95% of the students will never be programmers. Probably the same ratio of College Athletes becomming Pro's or something close. Either they lack the skills, the desire to move up and better themselves, the ambition to spend the time necessary to master or at least try to master the craft or unfortunately they never get a break. Many think the piece of paper is the answer to thier problems. That's the slam. The paper is not the be all and end all and I don't want people to think that cert is their salvation. Perfect example, I have a friend that's an MIS manager. He wanted me to interview this guy for a Help Desk/Net Admin position. Long story short... I unplugged the network connection just enough do disrupt the signal intermittently. I had him trouble-shoot the problem later. 2 hours later he was wanting to format the HDD. But he had MS A+, MCSE, yadda, yadda, yada. This is typical. I wish I had a camera to show you his expression when I popped that cable back in. It was priceless. Needless to say he did not get the job.

 

I took Instructor off my sig because I left the Profession for the time being as my family is growing soon and I want to be a dad to my kids more than I want to teach my craft to others. Do I miss it? You betcha! Those students that are sincere, there to learn, and are excited more than made up for the guys that just wanted to get the piece of paper.

 

If I offended any instructors I apologize. That was not my intent. My intent was to bring to light mis-conceptions about Certification.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

I think the dealer should be your first stop for training. This training is geared to get you to program your parts.

 

The next step is to look for a more thorough "sink in" type training. The Mc cert classes are a good thing. We are going to start offering them here sometime this year. (If a student wants to learn then he/she will get alot of knowledge out of it. If not they just get the cert.)

 

Or... Check out the local trade schools. There are some really sharp guys out there. /I have been teaching MC at our local college in the evenings for 10 years. Like brother James I dont do it for the money, I like training/helping people.

[Scott Bond]

My .02 relates to this """The location is irrelevant, what is important is the "depth" of training that they can receive."""

 

1.]Explain to a great instructor just exactly what you want your group to achieve.

2.]He can identify your company requirements

correctly by talking to each person,-,record what skill sets each man all ready has and how long it will take to get each man out of the--speed boats wake,, and into the speed boat---and then hook up his personal support and M.C. maintenance for the remainder of 2004.

3.]The instructor commits specifically what each person will know upon completion in writing .

4.]The company writes a P.O.

5.]Each person knows what they need to know.

 

The trade schools are good,

The collage classes are good,

The classes at the dealer are good,

I feel that the school my brother in law Jay teaches at gets in they way of his instruction.

 

If your fortune enough to work next to a guy that knows something,(and he will show you) your miles ahead.

 

Scott teh' I think a Tudor is a hell of a deal.

 

[ 01-21-2004, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[Zero]

quote:

---

Oh, and as for Certification, you are real close to Mastercam's Educational division

---

To the best of my knowledge, the certs offered by mastercamedu are instructor certs and not user certs. There were some talks about a year ago about them setting up a certification program for users and as far as I can tell, it never happened. I took the 2d and 3d classes from my reseller when we first got MC 5 years ago. I've got my "diplomas" or "certification" papers from them, but they don't say much...Would be nice to have a piece of paper directly from MC saying I was a certified user. Just gimme the test, I'll pass it blindfolded. Even though it wouldn't mean much to me, it's 1 more thing to show prspective employers.

[Mike Freimann]

There are many certifications that require more than just showing up to a class. Mastercam Certification requires more than attendance. At this time there are only a handful of instructors that have qualified and many of them are still working to incorporate certification in their programs. I plan on offering this program to resellers sometime after X releases. So keep looking and asking.

 

I am sure that James and others here could pass the certification test. I guarantee that they will not receive a Mastercam Certification card until they do.

 

Take care,

 

Mike Freimann

[cadcam]

Mike I heard that Paton & Asociates was going to offer this to instructors out here in Cali is this correct?

 

[ 01-22-2004, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: cadcam, From Precision Programming ]

[Mike Freimann]

They will offer the instructor certification class. At this time I am the only person that certifies instructors. If you have any specific questions I would be happy to address them offline.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

I guarantee that they will not receive a Mastercam Certification card until they do.

---

Awwwwwww, shucks!

[Slick]

It wasn't really brought up, but after reading all the responses...

 

Don't you think seein's how MasterCAM is going with a "Maintenance Agreement" they should maybe start providing a "Certification Course" to go along with it?

 

I know it's kind of a devil's advocate question, just throwing it out there, but that would be pretty appealing. Say every year you pay, you are qualified for let's say one to two employees to go through a certification course. Maybe if it's always the same person, for every year you pay, the higher level of instriction you receive. Our dealer provided this company with a two day traing course which granted, it was just fine for a beginner. But I know now that we are getting CATIA V5, they are providing full one week courses for the engineers that already have experience with there software.

 

Just food for thought, and trust me, I don't like the fact that I used the "C" word either

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Slick,

 

Edu Mike (Mike Frieman) is on a quest to get us MC dealers involved in the cert classes. Cnc Services in virginia got their certifaction a few months ago, and we are going to follow right after the two shows coming up.

 

If you are interested in this program tell your dealer. It is a good deal for the students and is accredited. I didn't like it at first cause they said I had to take the class to certified, but that kinda validates it at the same time.

[Die Sinker]

To All- I have been using MasterCam since v.3. I started at Glendale Community College the first year they offered it. The professor was learning at the same time we were. We were taught by a 18yr.old who had it in high school. This was 1990. I took this for about 3 years at night. Frank Paton(from Paton and Associates) would come by every once in a while to give us a hand-everything by the seat of our pants. Eventually I went to work for a small company that wanted to start using some kind of software to sink forging dies. I recommkended MasterCam and he bought it. This was 1994. The fella I worked for and still do, worked with me and he and I worked very hard (school of hard knocks)to learn the software, with the help of Dennis Neil of Cad-Cam Consulting here in Huntington Beach, Cal. I continued with Glendale College and the same professor until he retired in 2002. I was actually teaching some classes at the school for the last couple of years before he retired. We all learned the hard way by just starting to "push buttons". We are still making forging dies using MC v.9 and 4 NC machines. Also, I am a 60 yr. old Die Sinker with 40 yrs. in the trade. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks. No certifications, just learn it because you have to!

 

Gary Armitstead

Santa Fe Entertprises

Santa Fe Springs, CA