Parametric Programming

[dmaier]

I do not know anything about parametric programming other than what I have researched today. My boss would like the tool offset data used during a program run from a machine to be saved in our .nc program before it is sent back to our server. Is this is possible? I have not found any reference about saving machine parameter data back into a .nc program but have found references stating anything is possible with parametric programming. Does this fall into the "anything is possible" category? We work with Fanuc controllers in our shop. I think I would be dealing with Macro B programming if I understand what I read earlier correctly. If this is possible I will look for some classes to better understand this programming method.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Pretty much everything you need to know about it is in a book by Peter Smid called "Fanuc CNC Custom Macros".  Getting it in the same file could be tricky, as would getting it to output automatically when saving your program back.  What would be easy would be having the offsets output either at the start or end of the program or each time a tool is picked up.  Otherwise the control probably has a function to save out all offsets that you could use when saving programs back.  Is your machine connected by RS-232 or Ethernet?

 

Outputting the offset each time a tool is picked up could be a useful operation record.  Each line could say something like "8/22/17 14:57:03 T3 D3 +.0022 H3 4.9771"

 

 

[dmaier]

16 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

Is your machine connected by RS-232 or Ethernet?

Ethernet. If saving to a separate file is easier I'm sure he would be fine with that too. He is looking for a way automate operation records like you suggested and eliminate hard to read penmanship and incorrectly recorded information by an operator. I will look into the book you suggested. All the sites I have been to so far have been recommending "CNC Programming using Fanuc Custom Macro B" by S.K. Sinha. I was going to look into that book as well. Seen an online class certified by Fanuc on CNC Concept Inc's webpage. I already sent an email to them for more information about the class. They seemed pretty reasonable in price compared to the in-person class Fanuc offers.

[Newbeeee™]

Program with using G10 so the offset data in the program, WRITES the info to the control?

We do this for diameter offset but not tool length. Does this meet what he wants?

You can do this with datums too (write to the G54/55 etc using G10) and then this stays within the nc file.

[Guest]

I used to use G10 lines in my programs...

Offsets were part of the actual NC file......

[Newbeeee™]

Just now, JParis said:

I used to use G10 lines in my programs...

Offsets were part of the actual NC file......

Why "use to use" JP?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, newbeeee said:

Why "use to use" JP?

Place I am at now, it would be culture shock......I define holders and stick outs but the setup guys make the final calls, so that info would not always be accurate....as such, I don't fight the battle...

[nickbe10]

Parametric programming is when you write complete programs in Macro B. The use of variables in the code allow you to make "families " of  parts  which differ by a limited number of variables which are entered in the program "fields".

What you want to do is extract the offset data from the machine and save it. This is fine as long as you keep all the holder /tool combinations "intact" between runs. And your fixtures are able to load repeatably in "machine space".On a Haas there are commands similar to the SND commands for DNC download but the acronyms contain the word "offset" in some way. Can't remember the exact commands.

I believe there are similar Macro B statements that will achieve the same effect in a Fanuc control, but this is not strictly "parametric programming".

There is also a book by Sinha which I find very useful for Macro B work, more comprehensive than the Schmid book

[huskermcdoogle]

I have done a few things along these lines.

For tool and work offset records, I just punch them into the folder and then retrieve and save them with meaningful names, if you ever want to read them back in, its not hard you just have to set the name back and point the machine to the right folder. Or you can then take those files and copy and paste the needed lines into your program, or turn them into subs called from your program.  Many options here.

Now to do it exactly as your boss is stating, not that simple.  Could you devise a cumbersome system to do so, sure.

I think the simplest method is to G10 all of the tool offsets needed into the header of the program, and if you need to change one, it has to be done in the G10 code in the program.  you could have it as a sub at the end, or as part of the "tool table" section and you could have the post spit out a "template".  Once you have edited wear at the machine, you would have to splice them back in any time you repost from Mastercam.  Or if you did it as an external sub, that sub would be read in and read out with the job, but then has no bearing on the Mastercam posting, you just have to have a call to it in the header of your file.  When you save a job you punch out the offset file, and the program separately, but they go onto the server as a pair.

I hope this is clear enough.

 

edit:

Also, length/diameter geometry offsets are dangerous here....  We are just talking wear values right?

[dmaier]

9 minutes ago, huskermcdoogle said:

Also, length/diameter geometry offsets are dangerous here....  We are just talking wear values right?

Length/Diameter geometry offsets is what would be collected. We have dedicated tools that are not to be broken down for each job. This is more for archiving purposes vs re-entering previous values back into the machine when the program is ran. We would like to have the data for when a old job is set up for a new run. If we are having tolerance issues we would like to compare data from a good run to the problem run to eliminate any tooling issues (IE: deflection from a tool being longer than the last run) 

[crazy^millman]

2 hours ago, dmaier said:

Length/Diameter geometry offsets is what would be collected. We have dedicated tools that are not to be broken down for each job. This is more for archiving purposes vs re-entering previous values back into the machine when the program is ran. We would like to have the data for when a old job is set up for a new run. If we are having tolerance issues we would like to compare data from a good run to the problem run to eliminate any tooling issues (IE: deflection from a tool being longer than the last run) 

SPC charts?  What does your calibration record like for the machines? How often are the laser calibrated? What is your coolant record look like? What does your time and tool studies look like for the jobs? Keeping track of something like this should fall right into all these other things you are tracking to see why you are having these issue with quality. What is your batch testing process look like? Where in the process are you doing on the machine inspection? Do you have a NIST 2D or 3D artifact for your probing process? What did the in process inspection charts your operators were filling out look like? What is your scrap rate and where are your failure points at in your process? When you had your tool vendors review your problem areas what were their recommendations to help you overcome these issues? 

[jlw™]

5 hours ago, dmaier said:

I do not know anything about parametric programming other than what I have researched today. My boss would like the tool offset data used during a program run from a machine to be saved in our .nc program before it is sent back to our server. Is this is possible? I have not found any reference about saving machine parameter data back into a .nc program but have found references stating anything is possible with parametric programming. Does this fall into the "anything is possible" category? We work with Fanuc controllers in our shop. I think I would be dealing with Macro B programming if I understand what I read earlier correctly. If this is possible I will look for some classes to better understand this programming method.

This is very possible and much easier than you think.  Do you have your parameter manual?