Machining sharp interior corners with 5 axis

[Steelab]

Is there a toolpath that can help to sharpen corners using a tapered endmill and 5 axis positioning? 

Basically like a swarf mill on both sides of an  interior corner where the tip of the tapered endmill finds the sharp corner and the cutting edge finds the two vertical surfaces of the corner. I guess this would be similar to the engraving toolpath that walks up the corners of the geometry to make a sharp on the surface but tilted using 5 axis so you can get vertical walls.

[crazy^millman]

3 hours ago, Steelab said:

Is there a toolpath that can help to sharpen corners using a tapered endmill and 5 axis positioning? 

Basically like a swarf mill on both sides of an  interior corner where the tip of the tapered endmill finds the sharp corner and the cutting edge finds the two vertical surfaces of the corner. I guess this would be similar to the engraving toolpath that walks up the corners of the geometry to make a sharp on the surface but tilted using 5 axis so you can get vertical walls.

Swarf will do it, but I have found it best to use curve 5 Axis and use vectors to do what your after.

[Bbeyer562]

I am not 100 percent certain in what you are trying to accomplish but many times I will finish both walls and then pick the corner out with a tapered ball using a parallel toolpath. or maybe a pencil that you convert to 5 axis with tilt

 

[Chally72]

On relatively simple corners, I've had good luck with Project Curves, choosing the corner edge and projecting against one side surface, and a collision control angle change against the adjacent edge. Crazy^millman has the only true solution for complex corners and complete control- vector lines and Project Curves or Curve 5 axis.

[crazy^millman]

1 hour ago, Chally72 said:

On relatively simple corners, I've had good luck with Project Curves, choosing the corner edge and projecting against one side surface, and a collision control angle change against the adjacent edge. Crazy^millman has the only true solution for complex corners and complete control- vector lines and Project Curves or Curve 5 axis.

Dylan, that is the true power of Curve 5 Axis. I have use it for almost 20 years and done some really amazing toolpaths with it. Long before we have the toolpaths we currently have I was creating that motion the old school way drawing toolpaths and vectors to make it do what was needed. I could spend days just drawing geometry to make the motion I wanted, but when it was all said and done I got exactly what I needed the way I needed to get the work done. I did the very task on a Intergrex last year, but I only had to go down to a .015R  x 1" deep so I got away with a Tapered Ball endmill to make it happen. Once I drew the Vectors to control it in one corner I just transform rotated them to the other 3 corners. I use the depth of cut to allow it to step down the wall without having to draw all the geometry and done.

I have drilled holes in parts using Curve 5 Axis where I wanted to keep the tool within .05 of the complex surface. Customer was convinced the rapid moves on the machine was taking to long and wanted the head to hug the part. Operators hated running the program, but in the end I proved on that machine Rapid was king. There are other times when that is not the case on big old slow machines keeping the tool close to the part is better. Thinking outside the box and adapting our method to support the process is where we shine.

[Metallic]

3 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Dylan, that is the true power of Curve 5 Axis. I have use it for almost 20 years and done some really amazing toolpaths with it. Long before we have the toolpaths we currently have I was creating that motion the old school way drawing toolpaths and vectors to make it do what was needed. I could spend days just drawing geometry to make the motion I wanted, but when it was all said and done I got exactly what I needed the way I needed to get the work done. I did the very task on a Intergrex last year, but I only had to go down to a .015R  x 1" deep so I got away with a Tapered Ball endmill to make it happen. Once I drew the Vectors to control it in one corner I just transform rotated them to the other 3 corners. I use the depth of cut to allow it to step down the wall without having to draw all the geometry and done.

I have drilled holes in parts using Curve 5 Axis where I wanted to keep the tool within .05 of the complex surface. Customer was convinced the rapid moves on the machine was taking to long and wanted the head to hug the part. Operators hated running the program, but in the end I proved on that machine Rapid was king. There are other times when that is not the case on big old slow machines keeping the tool close to the part is better. Thinking outside the box and adapting our method to support the process is where we shine.

I have tried doing similar things in the past to control the vectors....can you post a picture of an example of "drawing control vectors" just so I can see what you mean when you say that....a little visual aid always helps.

 

Thanks

[crazy^millman]

12 minutes ago, Metallic said:

I have tried doing similar things in the past to control the vectors....can you post a picture of an example of "drawing control vectors" just so I can see what you mean when you say that....a little visual aid always helps.

 

Thanks

The Green and Teal Lines are Vectors to control the toolpaths and linking moves on the ID of my current project. 1100 hours of programming on something that runs for about 800 hours. Sorry I cannot share picture of the part.

[Metallic]

6 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

The Green and Teal Lines are Vectors to control the toolpaths and linking moves on the ID of my current project. 1100 hours of programming on something that runs for about 800 hours. Sorry I cannot share picture of the part.

That is nuts!

[Leon82]

I've noticed swarf doesn't like going at the sharp corners I always try and put a little bit of a radius.

 

I don't do it very much but when I do I tend to make my branches so the tool is in the vertical position of the corner it needs to be before it reaches it

[crazy^millman]

2 hours ago, Metallic said:

That is nuts!

There is a reason I am the Crazy^Millman.

[#Rekd™]

Ron,

Are these vectors geometry that you created or vectors created by the toolpath?

 

[Metallic]

3 hours ago, #Rekd™ said:

Ron,

Are these vectors geometry that you created or vectors created by the toolpath?

 

That was what I was going to ask...how do you go about creating those? I’ve created vectors from backplot but that’s it.

 

also, are the big long orange lines your entry chains/vectors for 5 axis linking? EDIT: I’m guessing yes based on the description. 

[cncappsjames]

When I absolutely need a sharp inside corner, I've used a chamfer endmill and a Curve 5-Axis toolpath. You have 100% control over tool vector with that path. 

[crazy^millman]

11 hours ago, #Rekd™ said:

Ron,

Are these vectors geometry that you created or vectors created by the toolpath?

 

I use many methods to create vectors in Mastercam today.

#1 I will use create line normal, but not just one method here to accomplish that. Free style where I just randomly place a line I want to use as a vector. I will create a point on a surface and then I will snap to that point using this method. I will snap to a edge or a mid point. I might create a curve on an edge and then use point segment to create a spacing of points I want to make the vectors.

#2 I will offset a surface and then trim or extend the edges of the surface to give me something to drive an edge too. That edge can sometimes be the chain I can use to driver a toolpath or if I want vectors then I create the curve on the edge and then use the create point segment and use a number for my upper and lower edges to make the vectors.

#3 I will just draw a line that I want and then I will draw and end line at a different angle. Then I connect the lower edges of the line and the upper edges of the line. I then use point segment wit ha number to create an equal number of point on the upper and lower line. I then draw vectors using those line with Lock Auto Cursor Point. I make sure I am always going in the same direction so the vectors all face the same way so I can window grab them. I use the same method for edges on curves where I want to make what I call a Jacob's Ladder for vector control like the picture shown here. I create the 4 end lines and then I started the process of connecting them and putting the point and then drawing the rest of the vectors.

#4 Use toolpaths to create vectors. Gcode showed me many years ago when we worked together how to save the Vector out of a toolpath using backplot. I have used that method since then to make my own linking moves using curve 5 Axis or save vectors from one toolpath to use in a different one. My current file has about 50 linking moves in it. Safety Zone and 5 Axis linking was not up to the task. Aaron has seen the file and know the issues of all of this on ID shapes.

#5 Use Lead/Lag and Tilt options in some toolpath to create one edges of vectors for a toolpath. Make changes to those setting to make the other side of the vectors. Some toolpaths you want a nice fanning motion but then you have areas where you want to avoid something. We didn't have all the options we have now so you made Flowline, Parallel or Scallop Toolpaths to drive a 5 axis curve toolpath. You then ran it using the above method to start making your vector gardens as I call them. Once you have a nice vector garden you had a awesome toolpath. No different with the new toolpath I will create levels of vectors and work from there till I get what I want the way I want it.

We have a lot more options and for a majority of the people it is good enough and many times I shouldn't put as much time in some of my work as I do, but if I am not giving my best then why even bother is my issue with not tweaking it till it is perfect. I have been chasing what I consider poor quality on one part right now for months. Would probably past most places QC with a little grumbling, but it is my art and once it comes off the machine and every surface is looking good then my effort is worth it. People look at my work and know I did it because it was not a simple toolpath. Thought effort and hard work went into making that toolpath do exactly what I thought it should. Is it the best way probably not, but it is right and does it look good? If those answers are yes then I did my job to the best of my ability.

[Chally72]

1 hour ago, crazy^millman said:

I use many methods to create vectors in Mastercam today.

#1 I will use create line normal, but not just one method here to accomplish that. Free style where I just randomly place a line I want to use as a vector. I will create a point on a surface and then I will snap to that point using this method. I will snap to a edge or a mid point. I might create a curve on an edge and then use point segment to create a spacing of points I want to make the vectors.

 

There are some neat things coming in regards to Line normal for creating vectors in a situation like this 

[crazy^millman]

1 hour ago, Chally72 said:

There are some neat things coming in regards to Line normal for creating vectors in a situation like this 

Can't wait only 20 years of other way so open to better faster ways.

[crazy^millman]

#6 Project toolpath lines from different toolpaths unto shapes. I have an ID shape I must hug the tool to the inside of to keep the Massive 5 Axis Head from slapping the back of the head into the other side of the ID. I need to move about 100 degrees rotation. Since the MW 5 Axis toolpaths suck with reference point you either retract it all the way out of the part which is sloppy and looks lazy or you project that linking line unto a surface. Then you can try the two vectors from the end of one path to the start of another one. I found this morning it was okay, but as it goes to the end doing it that way I was getting about 20 degrees of catch up for the C axis towards the end. I then back plotted the toolpath to about 50 degrees and saved that Vector. The linking move was projected to a 44" diameter Cylinder. I then drew a 3 point arc using the Start Middle and end vectors. My Jacob ladder method of using point segments on the top and bottom and now I have a nice curve 5 Axis linking toolpath that move the 5 Axis head inside of the part from C135 to C35 while moving the A axis from A-80 to A-95.