Predator vs Cimco DNC

[Jake L]

We are looking to upgrade our DNC system. Just got quotes from Cimco (45k) and Predator (35k).

From what I've read on the forums Cimco is better but there isn't a lot of hard/detailed evidence of why. They are willing to spend the extra money to go with Cimco, but I'll have to make a solid argument for it.

I'd love to hear some opinions on the matter. The last thing I want is to be kicking myself years down the road for not getting one system or the other. 

Please let me know if more info is needed. TIA

[JParis]

Cimco support is unmatched...the software just works. The interface is easy and adaptable and easily expandable.

I am looking to add DNC early next year, who is coming in, Cimco, period. I don't need to look at anything else.

My long experience as a user and on the support side tell me it's the way to go.

 

[Jake L]

26 minutes ago, JParis said:

Cimco support is unmatched...the software just works. The interface is easy and adaptable and easily expandable.

I am looking to add DNC early next year, who is coming in, Cimco, period. I don't need to look at anything else.

My long experience as a user and on the support side tell me it's the way to go.

 

Thanks for the reply! One of the main bullet points they had in favor of Cimco was the support. But then someone asked how often we'll actually use the support once everything's setup. Obviously if something goes down you want the best support you can get, but how often should we expect that to happen?

[JParis]

6 minutes ago, Jake L said:

but how often should we expect that to happen?

Assuming no hardware issues on your end, rarely, We had a switch go belly up one time after a thunder storm....at that time we were about an hour away from their local facility, we had a replacement that afternoon to use until our new unit came in...

Though if you HAVE to make that call for some reason, you need someone to actually pick it up....

It's kind of like insurance....you don't want to ever have to use your insurance but you pay for it, just in case....

[Kyle F]

DNC is just NC file management? I know software ain't cheap, but 45k to shoot NC files is wild. It really makes sense for tracking rev changes in a high mix production environment.

Would a job shop atmosphere benefit much from software like this? I just throw my NC files on a USB, and we still have 100+ foot cables for the older machines lol.

[Jake L]

14 minutes ago, Kyle F said:

DNC is just NC file management? I know software ain't cheap, but 45k to shoot NC files is wild. It really makes sense for tracking rev changes in a high mix production environment.

Would a job shop atmosphere benefit much from software like this? I just throw my NC files on a USB, and we still have 100+ foot cables for the older machines lol.

I think it just depends how big your shop is as to if it's worth it or not.

I work at a secondary location where we have mainly 4 HMC and 1 VMC. When we're proving out a program we might end up reposting the same program 8-10 times a day. Each repost requires a trip from the machine to my office with the card. We aren't "counting steps" per say, but there's a lot of wasted time there. 

Our main facility has 40+ machines, everything from lathes to a multis. If they had to run all those machines without a DNC system there would be hours of wasted time each day. Much easier for the programmer to say "give me 5 minutes to repost" then the machinist to pull the program off the system. 

[JParis]

16 minutes ago, Kyle F said:

DNC is just NC file management? I know software ain't cheap, but 45k to shoot NC files is wild. It really makes sense for tracking rev changes in a high mix production environment.

Would a job shop atmosphere benefit much from software like this? I just throw my NC files on a USB, and we still have 100+ foot cables for the older machines lol.

Really, it depends....

You're likely also getting wireless devices that connect the machines, the software, a hardware hub(# of machines dependent) programming the devices, running all needed ..

If program control is not an issue, then nothing really matters....I know that once a program is proven and all worked out, getting that saved and backed up is vital

[byte]

I remember when gcodes shop was using predator DNC, what a cluster**** that was.

[Colin Gilchrist]

+1 for Cimco.

They also have a fantastic upgrade available for their CIMCO Edit program. The value far exceeds the price, and the price isn't high to begin with.

[skyking01x]

How much is Cimco DNC for 4 CNC's?  Did I see $35k or $35000???

[JParis]

7 minutes ago, skyking01x said:

How much is Cimco DNC for 4 CNC's?  Did I see $35k or $35000???

Call them...it'll be an individual quote based on your overall need...looks like OP was talking over 40 machines

[AHarrison1]

4 minutes ago, skyking01x said:

How much is Cimco DNC for 4 CNC's?  Did I see $35k or $35000???

You actually saw 35k, but maybe the OP did actually mean 35000

[skyking01x]

Thanks for the non-answer.  

[JParis]

Just now, skyking01x said:

Thanks for the non-answer.  

No one can give you answer....that's kind of the point...his situation is different than yours

[skyking01x]

I wasn't looking for a hard quote.  There must be someone who has Cimco for 4 or 5 CNC's, no?

[AHarrison1]

15 hours ago, skyking01x said:

I wasn't looking for a hard quote.  There must be someone who has Cimco for 4 or 5 CNC's, no?

Which is a fair enough query, but then how many factors will influence that non-hard quote so you end up with a figure much like tooling sfm recommendations i.e

160sfm to 490sfm. That is a pretty large swing.

Someone might respond and say they spent $1000  10 years ago someone else paid $10000 because of where they are located. Too many variables to get even a reasonably 'in-accurate' cost

Factor in the OP's 40+ machines at 35k and you get about 3.5k for your 4 machines...+/-2.5k.

JParis gave sound advise, call them. 

[gcode]

1 hour ago, AHarrison1 said:

Someone might respond and say they spent $1000  10 years ago someone else paid $10000 because of where they are located. Too many variables to get even a reasonably 'in-accurate' cost

We spent north of a quarter million setting this place up with Predator about 5 years ago.

I tried to get them to talk to Cimco, but the deal was already done.

The Cimco rep got a courtesy meeting and was shown the door.

The implementation was 50+ machines ranging from 40 years old to modern Fanuc and Okuma controls.

Many are ethernet to RS232 , newer ones are ethernet and a few are wireless.

This is a public forum and I'm not going to post my opinions on the system here, other than to say

the rollout was painful and remains so to this day.

My advice is to get a copy of the operator's manual for both systems and spend some time with them.

 

 

 

[skyking01x]

I have my machines DNCed with RS232 and fiber optic links because TIG welding aluminum(high freq) in our shop was giving wired RS232 problems.  I'll call Cimco and see what they say.  Thanks to all you guys.

[JParis]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:14 AM, Jake L said:

We are looking to upgrade our DNC system. Just got quotes from Cimco (45k)

Seeing the price, it makes me think you were looking at also adding the Cimco NCBase too...

I am looking at 61 machines, also adding the database and I am in the same ballpark...

I have all the approvals I need, just needs to go through the owner now....it's part of a priorities list he put out so the feeling is done deal...I never though count the chickens before they hatch.

[Jake L]

27 minutes ago, JParis said:

Seeing the price, it makes me think you were looking at also adding the Cimco NCBase too...

I am looking at 61 machines, also adding the database and I am in the same ballpark...

What is the NCBase? Do we need it? I think in total we're around 50-60 machines

I'm pretty close to giving up on fighting for Cimco.

I talked to our maitanance guy and he asked why they wanted Predator instead of Cimco. He said it didn't make sense why they wouldn't go with Cimco because it's "industry standard".

I talked to our floor manager and his response was "I never even heard of Predator before, why aren't we going with Cimco?" I told him I couldn't come up with any hard evidence of why to spend the extra money. He said without hard evidence management probably won't spend an extra dime. Which is a shame.

My point is, it seems everyone here except the people with the money think we should be getting Cimco.

//rant over

[JParis]

2 minutes ago, Jake L said:

What is the NCBase? Do we need it? I think in total we're around 50-60 machines

It is a database...not part of DNCMax.....

# of machines is similar, quoted cost is similar, I am only guessing but seems that "should" be part of your quote as well...

Though we don't need any hardware...that could be a portion of your quote as well.

[Ryan Mermall]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:46 PM, Jake L said:

What is the NCBase? Do we need it? I think in total we're around 50-60 machines

I'm pretty close to giving up on fighting for Cimco.

I talked to our maitanance guy and he asked why they wanted Predator instead of Cimco. He said it didn't make sense why they wouldn't go with Cimco because it's "industry standard".

I talked to our floor manager and his response was "I never even heard of Predator before, why aren't we going with Cimco?" I told him I couldn't come up with any hard evidence of why to spend the extra money. He said without hard evidence management probably won't spend an extra dime. Which is a shame.

My point is, it seems everyone here except the people with the money think we should be getting Cimco.

//rant over

@Jake LDid you guys end up going with a system? If so, which one do they go with?

[ikertx0]

Mans and PULPCOM?

In Spain i install it in lot of companies

[Jake L]

On 2/16/2024 at 8:07 PM, Ryan Mermall said:

@Jake LDid you guys end up going with a system? If so, which one do they go with?

I just heard we went with Cimco. Sounds like after including all the necessary add-ons in a new quote, Predator was a couple thousand more expensive than Cimco.

The plan last summer was to have the new DNC setup and running 2024 Q1... The current plan is to start installing 2024 Q2. Going off that trend, I'm crossing my fingers we'll have it up and running sometime before 2025. 

I'll try to come back and update, but I don't think I will be involved in the install.

 

[CEMENTHEAD]

were still using (cough)  Focal Point.  SMH