O/T Dumb Question #4372

[MetalMarvels]

I have been scouring my manuals and checking out various resources, but have not found a definitive answer on the following. On a CAT40 spindle, what is the orientation of the toolholder when inserted into the spindle. I was always taught that the longer ear went with the notch that was deeper (i.e. not the shallower side that has the drill dimple). However, other than everyone that I know thinking that it does go that way, I have yet to find any documented evidence of it.

 

Anyone know of any documented evidence of the proper orientation for toolholders in CAT40 spindles? It is needed for an operators manual that corporate is making us put together.

[robk]

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I was always taught that the longer ear went with the notch that was deeper (i.e. not the shallower side that has the drill dimple).

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Gary, The unequal drive slot depths are there to balance the tool holder only. I have been told in the past by our Command Tool Rep. that it makes no difference which way the tool is inserted into the spindle. Sorry, no solid documentation.

[MetalMarvels]

That it what I am afraid of - so far I only have anecdotal evidence - and it is somewhat mixed. However, so for it is running about 75% to have the long ear with the un-dimpled side......

 

This is one of those things that the corporate safety weenies will not let go of until I document that it does or doesn't matter. Undortunately, I can't just tell em "because"....

[dourk]

On my Cinci Arrows, the dimple goes away from the key. The toolholder simply won't fit in the spindle the other way - but it will fit in the toolchanger either way.

 

On my shizoka, it doesn't make any diff.

[dourk]

Oops, I just went and looked, the shiz is bt-40. The arrows have a plate riveted on the spindle cover showing orientation.

[chris m]

My Okumas, Okuma-Howa, and DPMs will only take the CAT holders one way because of the dog design; the Haas goes both ways

 

Don't really think it matters for most of us

 

C

[Nominal]

My $.02

I think it depends upon the machine tool itself.

i.e. there may be an issue with proximity switches on the carousel on some machines ( I believe Kia's have this ).

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Well, I'm gonna spray my 2¢ around too..

 

Nominal get my vote. We have machines which it DEFINITELY matter which way the holder is oriented - Cincinati. Put them in the wrong way and you better have a prybar and hammer handy because the short end WILL wedge. We also have mahines where it makes no difference whatsoever - Mori Seiki and Haas. I'm fairly certain you'll not find a standard other than it's dimensions anywhere.

 

HTH

 

BTW... This HAS to be the BEST dumb question I've seen in a LONG time.

[Thad]

Fadal doesn't matter. OKK will go in the spindle either way...just don't use the tool changer!

 

Thad

[Hardmill]

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BTW... This HAS to be the BEST dumb question I've seen in a LONG time.

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PEACE

[MetalMarvels]

This discussion arose because of the insistance of the corporate safety pukes that it MUST have an orientation. This was based on the look of the toolholder and spindle nose and of course their "expert" opinion. Naturally they had to write a Corrective Action Request against our procedures.......

 

The bad part is that I couldn't find any documentation that discussed it.

[Matthew]

In my CAT40 spindle it doesn't matter which way I put the tool. However, there is a noticable difference in the tool changer arm if I put the tool in 180 deg. It does not grip it as well. While I have not dug into it too much, I can see the only thing stopping it is a key on the tool change arm. I'm sure if I ground it down it would eliminate the problem, but it's just me setting up the machine so I haven't found it to be an issue. This is on a Taiwainese machine with our (almost) local machine dealers labels on it.

[mayday]

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BTW... This HAS to be the BEST dumb question I've seen in a LONG time.

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not so, have we discused which way you put the end mill in the tool holder?

[Tim Johnson]

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This discussion arose because of the insistance of the corporate safety pukes that it MUST have an orientation. This was based on the look of the toolholder and spindle nose and of course their "expert" opinion. Naturally they had to write a Corrective Action Request against our procedures.......

 

The bad part is that I couldn't find any documentation that discussed it.

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Call your machine tool manufacturer. They should be able to fax (or mail if a fax isn't good enough) you documentation.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Gary,

 

Tell the Corporate Safety Pukes to worry about color coding the conduit around the building and leave the Machining to you the the other professionsals in your company.

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

With a use of little logic if that will be different you would get disbalanced toolholder and it will rock your spindel if rpm>5000.

Over 8000 it would be catastrophic .

If you use higher then 8000 rpm you must use special holders.

Now I use VT40 holders german standart they have a pin for unique toolholder closing (IOW,only one way ).

This feature helps only if you use boring head or very accurate milling were difference of toolbitting in two differentt toolholder closings leads to additional tolerance (in most cases it is less then 0.01-0.02 mm )

In my CAT40 and CAT50 experience I never gave a damn to the way I put toolholder except boring and very accurate milling .

HTH

 

Teh Slaught mill

[Pierre Côté]

On some machines like HAAS do have a drilling cycle to shift the boring bar in a particular way.

 

Using such cycle code with a boring bar, must always refer to the proper side or axis shifted.

 

This cycle is doing the boring, shift the tool, go back to exit the hole.

 

This cycle have some variable to shift the proper axis and the amount of shift value prior to retract.

[SLJ]

I seem to remember the Mazak V-12 at the old place needed it's CAT 50 holders oriented one way or the other, just can't remember which way.