O/T 2D versus 3D and Solids

[Jcastle]

First let me Say this is only my third post. In the past I have used the search function to answer most of my questions. You all have been a great help.

 

Guess you could call this an off the record question 2d versus 3d

 

 

Given any two dimensional print is it better to program from the flat geometry and type in the depths or create the part in 3 dimensional wire frames or even in solids.

 

I prefer the 3d / solids way, using the customer’s flat geometry to either extrude into a solid or xform into a wireframe.

 

We receive solid models, dxf prints and even PDF files. Management wants to create programs from the flat dxf prints. Only if the run of part are in the hundreds do they want create it in wireframe or solids

 

If it’s 5 square blocks with holes or 500 plates with 30 different machinable features you still need to create code for it, correct. And why not in 3D

 

The company I work for only has an old copy of tek-soft 2d . I was hired because I’m register Mastercam mill level 1 user and they were interserted in seeing just what Mastercam could do. (I since upgraded to mill level 3 mr304)

 

Yesterday I was given the boot for creating a casting body in solids. When I should have done it in flat 2D so they say.

 

I will try to post the part to the ftp site for all to see. (mc9_files/sony x710 phototube a)

 

In closing how would all you gals and guys handle this 2d versus 3d issue.

 

John Castle

[Guest]

Well first of all I assume when you say you got the boot, they let you go. Sorry to hear that. Qualified people generally end up on their feet though, good luck.

 

IMHO

 

Even though your thought process would seem to have some validity. You have to remember, give them what they want, they are signing the check.

 

From the sounds of it, they were looking for quicker turn around out of the prgramming area and could not justify the slightly longer time it takes to do it your way on smaller batches of parts.

 

Try to think about it this way.

 

Your employer is your customer. Give them what they are willing to pay for.

 

If I'm way off base I'm sure I'll hear from the crew.

 

They'll let me know I'm

[Chris Rizzo]

Personally, I ALWAYS generate the part in 3D. Sometime with solids, somtimes just with wire, but either way I've got to have a good 3-DIMENSIONAL representation of what I'm making.

 

It is manditory (well, almost) for multi-sided parts, using diff. t/c planes, incremental depths, STL compare, etc. etc. etc. IMHO I've seen programmers use simple 2-d wire geo. to represent part faces and features, but it is a total hack. Not to mention if you have to go back and look at a part a few months later, you have no clue what all the disjoined wire is.

 

I should say that for some truly "flat" parts. (I.E. waterjet / laser) 2-d wire would probably be just fine. I also have some 2-d wire WITH my 3-d models for containment boundrys, over-bores, fillet driving geo, etc. etc....

 

Sounds like the company that hired you is in the dark ages with the 2-d preferences, although I should look at the file before carving that in stone!

[Chris Rizzo]

Jcastle, your part has 0 bytes on the ftp site..you may have just copied a shortcut there from your desktop?

[Jcastle]

Thanks jmparis. You are right. Give them what they want. I started out giving them the quick 2D flat programs, then along came the more complicated parts and I discovered how to draw in 3D and just picked depths. Somewhere along the line, all programming should only take 10 minutes per President of the company. "I worked for a job shop that manufactures medical devices."

 

Your right CMR. They are in the dark ages. I still can't believe in this day and age that people still want to do that. "The 2D way." I will try to put the part on the FTP site for you to see.

 

jmparis, do I know you? Have you ever worked for Instrumentation Industries in Lawrence, MA?

JCastle

[Guest]

Yup

 

One in the same.

 

How you been?

[Slixmix]

Funny, I've heard of some of the "superiors" referring to a solid model as "pretty little pictures". Total BS! Especially when you're doing production work on a 3 machine horizontal cell (Mazaks of course ) The pallets, tombstones,fixtures,etc.. are already modeled. Get a new part, draw it up, merge in the models and theres you're complete setup! For R&D quick and dirty stuff you don't really have to get to deep with solids. I love solids! It would really suck not having this package.

[Jcastle]

Well my friend, how about you

 

Cant for the life of me figure out the FTP site, must to to easy and Im trying to make it harder than it is.

[Guest]

Doing well. They are keeping me busy, let's put it that way. And it's about to get a whole lot busier. About 85% of what we do is stored on an old computer using Genesis. Now that finally decided that using that at this point in time is disruptive to work flow, which it is, so I am going to have to start to reprogram all of that as it starts to hit the floor. 1 programmer and 6 machines. This is gonna be fun.

 

As far as the FTP site, I dunno both files are there but when downloaded they both show 0 bytes.

 

With a window open of the FTP site in the correct folder where you want to upload and another one where your file is stored, it should just be drag and drop at that point.

 

HTH

[cadcam]

Jcastle,open the FTP to the right folder then go to the file do a right click and copy,Now go back to the folder on the FTP and right click and past.

Wait for it to transfer. all will be good.

[Jcastle]

Thanks cadcam I followed your instructions and still get the following:

 

Error occurred copying a file to the ftp server, Make sure you have permission to put files on the server. What else could I be doing wrong?

[cadcam]

Are you using the l;ink at the top of the page?

What are you using to surf the net?

 

Can you see all the other files?

[jrykrl]

Sometimes, I have to go 3d just to understand WTF the engineers really want. Other than that, don't do more than they want you to.

Owners are not impressed by the "pretty pictures" even if they help you get a grasp on a difficult print!

They just want the money.

Jer teh "are you sure you want this hole here?"

[Thad]

On simple parts, I think 2D is just fine. 3D wireframe can clutter things, when not needed. Maybe I'm biased since I started out doing only 2D programming on "flat" files

 

Thad teh my 2 cents

[Jcastle]

Yes Im using the I link on top of the page and can see all the files

Im using yahoo to surf / although yesterday and so far this morning the search engine times outs and i can not get to my Email.

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

I will go from what I have .

I will not draw anything if I do not need it .

Even teh complex drawing ,if I can do it all 2d .

I am lazy .

But having 3d model I will not turn it to 2d too.

 

Teh stupido dumbliero .

[cadcam]

Jcastle ,Sounds like problem with your conection.

Are you on Dialup or High speed?

[cadcam]

as for me I like 3d for 90% and if it is just a simple poscket or some thing like that 2d works.

 

Most of the time I do not get just simple one sided work and when makeing fixtures I usally make in a solid and have the part laying on it.

 

So I say I perfer 3d.

[Matthew]

I use 3D most of the time. If I have only a simple contour to mill or a couple of holes to drill I will just draw the wireframe. I find when I get a 2D print from a customer, I find discrepencies (sp?) when I draw it in solids and it allows me to filter out mistakes they have made. I believe some of the use Autocad and I've had one view say the part is .470 thick and another view say it is .500 thick. Causes a problem when a cross hole is very close to the on the view with the 1/2" thickness. Most of the time (on simple stuff) it allows me to fix the problem and the customer is non the wiser. A portion of what we do is not 100% dependant on the part matching the print, but performing the proper function when it is finished.

[Jcastle]

Thanks all

Cadcam the cable company tells me they are having problems within yahoo. The search engine works a little better this morning, but still no Email

[TREV]

quote:

__________________________________________________

all programming should only take 10 minutes per President of the company.

__________________________________________________

 

lol, jcasle, if you meen you were let go because of your programming your probably better off to find a more modern enviroment.imo 2-d is not going to get you ahead in this world.probly 95% of what i do is 3-d.but every thing that is designed here is in 3-d software so other than a few mods in mastercam all design is done for me.

as for your bosses statement, hell i can spend that much time just sorting out a file to see if im making a widget or a gadget.

best of luck to you , trevor

[SLJ]

Once built a grinder rotor with helix "arms" in solids. Had a retirement age graduate Engineer tell me "thats just a picture, show me the print". He would not believe there was none!

[Jcastle]

Hey guys the local cable company finally got its $%^& together.

I have put the casting body my former employer wanted to draw in 2d and machine in 2d on the ftp site MC9 folder phototube.

 

Not a really difficult part, Clamp to 4th axis or haas indexer Produce all inside features in one set-up

[mill123four]

I've been programming w/ mastercam for close to 20 years and I mix 2d and 3d all the time. I try to find the quickest and easest way to get a program to the machine operators. I agree that you need to satify the owner while looking for a new position elsewhere. All workers must remember the "Golden Rule": He how has the gold makes the rule. Good luk finding a new position.

[Mark Lovelace]

I usually draw in 3D, and then create a seperate 2D layer for blueprints, if needed. Then again, I rarely have jobs that could be done in 2D alone.

 

I'm still having a little trouble integrating solids into what I do without being redundant. It's very useful, but I find that I often have to create geometry once for the surfaces, once for the solid, and once again for the blueprint. I'm sure I'll eventually settle into a system that works well, without doing everything 3 times.