Mastercam / Surfcam

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

Thats a good reason, then. I was only being 'tongue in cheek' having a little fun.

 

Thats it for me on this topic because I never used Surfcam so I can't be of much help. Can't compare something to another if you don't know something.

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

Mold100,

 

Are you saying that Mastercam's Flowline, surface contour and Project Blend stuff will out perform Surfcam paths?

 

Mike

[TREV]

+1 to scotts comment.

i have used other software in the past also and have always gotten the job done,there is always more than one way to accomplish any given task.the bottom line is to get it done efficiently and at minimal cost.if this gentelman can come in and cut parts as fast and accuretly in surfcam as the rest do in mc. then you need to ask yourself if it makes sence to get a seat of surfcam.for this one particular fella.i sure hope he can live up to the reputation or youll be stuck with a seat of surfcam that noone uses.

good luck ,

trevor

[Trevor Bailey]

The only surfacing path that I have seen from smurfcam that works great is their parallel toolpath that allows you to set a constant scallop.

 

Other than that, tooooo many work arounds.

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

Trev,

 

We have both Softwares here but Mastercam is 98% implemented as far as posts, tool libraries etc. Surfcam is not. Also we have other people on Mastercam and none on Surfcam

 

Thanks

[Code_Breaker]

Here is a mastercam vs surfcam comparison chart (along with several others).

 

I didn't think this was much help, a real world comparsion would be much better. The fact that MasterCAM is world-wide, has a better support group (namely the forum),and you can get a job anywhere with better than average pay, leaves me to believe that I would not want use anything other than MasterCAM. Yes, I am familar with several CAM/CAD systems, making me more valuable than a single applicatin user.

 

I remember how good I was when using SmartCAM. When it became evident that it was on its way out, I switch to MasterCAM 12-15 yrs ago. Been here ever since.

 

Code_Breaker

[mold100]

Micheal, you are limited with surfcam and that is the reality of it, mastercam has way more ways to skin a cat.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Ok... here's what I'd do...

 

Create a Solid Primitive Block, 6 x 4 x 2. Draft a couple of the faces, fillet the top and 4 edges with a different radius for each one, start from the largest and work down. DO some surface toolpaths on it, rough contour, etc... then finish it with like a flowline or scallop toopath. Now go into the solids history and make a change and re-gen. See how long it will take him to do thie identical thing.

 

HTH

[wtsylvester]

just about totaly converted everything here to Mastercam with great success.

 

I think the answer to your question is right here

 

What % is left? Granted it would benefit your company to have someone that has Surfcam skills

to get the rest over. That is the plan right?

You aren't looking to go the other way are you?

 

It doesn't sound to me that there is a need to show that one is better than the other. It really boils down to what direction your place is headed.

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

Thanks Everyone for all of the excellent replies.

 

I am Mastercam all the way! I now have much more data to work with.

 

I will build a test piece with work instructions that will show them. When I get it done I will post it up here.

 

I just am trying to convert him. I also want to make sure that the CEO get this data so he will be assured that we still running the best cam software in the world!

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Mike

[Charles Davis]

Tell your buddy that if he wants to be employable in a few years he had better learn Mastercam.

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

I will Charles, I am just trying to be politically correct by offering objective evidence.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

[kwolf]

I agree with most of the opinions mentioned above about popularity,support,forum support .

I'm not a SURFCAM user, I mostly use Mastercam and PowerMILL. And I don't prefer it to Mastercam , my main reason is I think Mastercam provides better control in machining.

Like many companies we tried several CAM softwares, mainly Mastercam/PowerMILL/Surfcam. I saw colleagues working with it and we discussed about both them and here are my findings about it:

 

- It has a fully asoociative parametric Parasolid based Modeler which supports solid/surface/wireframe, called Paralogix or SURFCAM Solids, which has feature manager. It's used by other CAMs like EdgeCAM too. It's another software that you should run it separately. After model finished in it, user can export models to SURFCAM by clicking a button and it automatically launches SURFCAM and loads model. I don't know if it updates Toolpaths when you change a feature in modeler and reimport.

- Changing machining parameters or selecting geometry is like Mastercam now, no need to create a new operation. However Mastercam has had this feature for years.

- It's shipped with Predator Virtual CNC which I love it, the good thing is you can use a C-Hook and connect Mastercam to it as a verification package.

- It has a easy to use tool with GUI for creating Posts, PTC uses the same tool. Mastercam posts are more customizable but harder to use in my opinion.

- Surfcam learning curve for machining is shorter than Mastercam according to what I heard from our colleagues who tried them both.

- Surfcam mesh generation seems faster, however according to my colleagues it seems it has bugs when meshing vertical walls, so Toolpaths are not always perfect.

- Mastercam Backplot is much better with more options

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

Kwolf,

 

Thanks for the input. I believe that both softwares are good but Mastercam has an edge when it comes to complex parts. At least that is what I am seeing.

 

Thanks

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

kwolf,

 

Does Surfcam have anything that compares to "Highfeed"?

 

Mike

[kwolf]

I don't think so.

[Jack Mitchell]

Michael,

 

Let's try thinking this in reverse.

You say that this programmer is highly respected and has a brackground/ability to prove this.

I wouldn't disagree or challenge this mans ability since it could well cast others in another or unfavorable light.

 

I hope that he would be well rounded enough to appreciate your demonstration and not those from forum members that obviously favor Mastercam as would be expected in here.

 

Basically, the finest apple pie in the world can taste bitter to everybody else all depending on how it is presented, and nothing more. Really when you come to think of it - this is the programmers option and not really yours or mine. He will either attempt/adapt or he won't.

 

Not meaning to raise any hackles in here, just an observation at best.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

You are correct Jack,

 

I am just gathering data.

 

He is not being hardnosed about it is just that he is willing to change and I am just getting some info for all of our shop. I just think that facts are facts. What I have found out so far is that Surfcam is much better than I thought it was but Mastercam is all around a bit more effective. I get along great with all of the upper managment and this has been an open issue for quite some time now so I thought I would just see what everyone here said about this issue.

 

Thanks for you comments,

 

Mike

[crazy^millman]

Ok I have worked in about 18 shops in my life. I have found throught these adventures that having everyone on the same page is key to being effective, productive, and having skills sets grow and be able to be shared amoung those people. If the guys is a good programmer and wants what is best for the comapny and want ot be a team player this would not be at this point. If the decision was made to go to Mastercam then that is it. There is no need to anyone to have that kind of power in a company that is not in Managment. The leaders are the people who show the direction and give the direction of how thing should and will go to make things where the people feel comfortable. If the situation is wone where someone has to be shown this is the best course of action then what does that say to the other employees. I am no expert when it coem to what I do by any means but employees who decide what they are going to do are like a cancer in a shop. Employees who want ot help do a godo job and care to make thing where everyone can work together are better for the company than one guy who has to be persuaded thisis the best course of action. In all honesty it is not a Surfcam verses Mastercam issue it is a person who feel he has certain people by the balls or eating out of his hand and that is not good.

 

I think one system and everyone trying to do things the same way is what works best in a company. I am not saying everyone has to be the same none is or ever will be. I am not saying do not let new ideas or different ideas come out or allowed I am just saying everyone needs to do it along the same line. What if that guys is out and he is working on a $22,000 part and it has to go out tommorrow what are you going to do when he is the only one that knows that software. Again has you by the balls so you have to bend to his wishes, but you have it where he takes off and anyone can pick it right behind him and finish it becuase they are using the same software kind of along the same line nothing but productivity and prodution for the company. I would also put it this way when you only got one person who can do it all guess what it will fall on that one person so if he does want to take off sorry you cant you are the only one that can do it so your are stuck the biggest reason I am alwasy training and showing my guys how to do things. I as well as others made these remarks becuase this is really the bottom line here not Mastercam Verses Surfcam it is a company needing to be uniform and working as one unit not some guy who is the great best person making his own decision that everyone else has to try to convince he needs to do.

 

Sorry will get off the soap box now.

 

I have seen this crap for years. One guys that never shows other people stuff, or does things is such a way noone else can follow, or decides he is goingto take off for days at a time and leave alot of people holding the bag waiting on him to come back to work. I am not saying this guys is that way but what would keep him from becoming that is there is not checks and balances for him and the company as a whole.

[Phil Orenstein]

Michael,

A lttle while back I worked briefly for a mold shop that had 4 Surfcam programmers. The owners were long time Surfcam dealers. They had one evaluation seat of MC which I used. They were sick of the shortcomings of Surfcam and MC looked very appealing. But they were concerned about some very critical tried and true Surfcam features that they needed and didn't think MC could cut it, such as creating surface intersections splines, ramping down at plunge rate on 3D contours, always keeping tool down in pocketing, etc. I was able to show them (with mucho help from the forum) that apples for apples everything Surfacm could do, MC could do as well. But alas, in the end, they didnt want to pop for the investment and I'm not using Surfcam!

 

Phil

[Jack Mitchell]

Ron,

 

With all due respect, I understand full and well what it is that you are saying; I myself have worked in about ten different shops and know full well the Prima Donna routine. Yes I have made the ten dollar production parts and yes I have also produced the 100K molds as well.

 

I am certain if the individual was to program and run off his first few jobs then I would also assume that he and he alone would see them through completion just as you or I would. Remember this; it is never easy being the new guy in a shop full of experts and even worse is when the shop full of experts or the owners actually expect you to walk on water. (I remember quite succinctly the owner of a Mississauga company walking out into the shop and demanding to know who in the hell this guy is – he blew his nut when he saw what I was hired for – est about 25% more than anybody else in the company which included his top guys). – can I sell it or what? aerospace gravy at that!

 

The man needs time to settle in and no doubt would drop easily and handily to whatever software he feels most comfortable with. Given time I am sure that he will adapt to Mastercam and learn to work towards a common goal or element within this new company.

 

Being competent is one thing, proving this is quite another, being kind and considerate is another load to bear, helpful, modest, etc! – is it any wonder that we simply revert into our own little world once everybody accepts our weird little quirks? I guess it all comes together as we get older.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

Millman,

 

I fully understand and respect what you are saying.

 

This is just kind of a wierd shop for me because everyone seems to have a better or different way to do stuff but in the end I have to do it. When there is a hard part, I do it. Maybe I am just a Softy, I just don't like to make waves if I don't have to. I would rather just work things out. I am actually a control freek without control! Honestly, I may have my own thing going soon because the economy is so bad here that you can't make any money anyways. I think that it may be better just to take the chance and make no money working for myself.

 

BTW,

 

Did you have a chance to check out my part from the thread a few week ago.

 

Curve Five Axis / Depth cuts

 

Because of the area, I don't get to do cool parts like you millman but this one is kind of cool.

 

I would have put a link but I don't know how yet.

 

Thanks for the talk,

 

Mike

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

You are very right Jack,

 

Maybe I am just acting pre-mature.

 

 

thanks,

 

Mike

[crazy^millman]

Jack all that I have worked with and have worked for me I hope would say I am not a hard guy to work for. I understand the pressures of having to perform. I have a guy here who was using Cimatron antoehr uy that was using gibbs and yet another who is learning Mastercam and myself who has use it for about 2 years now. If I were to go to another shopand they only had Surfcam and I was told this is te system you have to work in guess what I am going to do so out of repect for those that hired me. If in that situation and given the oppurtunty would try to share the better way if that were in my mind Mastercam but if told no it is Surfcam then would not be happy but would do what I got to do.

 

I am by no means here tryign to sound like a non caring person and good people are hard to find. I just was trying to make the point that things happen and as much as we try to think we have a handle on it or can control it we can not and if we apporach things with a certain amount of planning and prepration we gives ourselves the cahnce to be ready for those things if they happen. I try to keep a certain number of endmills, Material, and other buffers to keep the shop running at it bets possilbe that I can do. Do I miss things do I make mistakes and do I drop the ball sure I do I'm human but I had a guy take off for 2 weeks that started 2 jobs before he left the guy I am training was able to take his 2 jobs and finish them with very little instruction or me looking over his shoulder. I have had other times we a guy had work 32 hours straight tryingto get a job out and I was able to go right behing him and get it done. Do thye happen all the time no but when does anytrhing ever happen at a good tine and when does it ever happen when you do not need it to. Call me crazy but if the people are all thinkinh close to the same way for the finished product and follow the ways to get there as close to soemthing someone else can follow then it becomes a win win for that person as well as the others that person works with.

 

I respect you very much and with thst comes the knowledge every situation id differernt and we all handle thing differently for thet time, place, probem, solutions, fix or idea that it needs for that. I just hope it comes across as my opinion and just me offering it as hopefully helpful and wit hgood entions and not trying to cuase problems for the guy just talking amongst my peers maye with alot more cautions that I did before but still talking and sharing my thought.

 

Mike I did check it out and wish I could put upthe video of the tool where I did this part is freaking rocks to see that thing cut like that is amzaing just amazing. I might send you a MPEG of it so you can see.

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

Cool Millman,

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Mike