Your honest opinion !

[Frank]

Hey all: Lately I really seem to be second guessing myself at everything I do, and sure as ****, I'll take a saw cut too deep, or miss a location of a hole...ect. I don't think this thread pertains to mold or 3d programmers. But I have recently been told that I have the next 3 months to shape up, or ship out. A little backround is I am the only programmer in a shop with over 30 cnc's, and most of the jobs I program are engine blocks or heads, or transmission cases on horizontal, or vertical rotary's. The big guy is not a believer of cad models so everything is programmed from the print. His new saying is he doesn't want to hear the words "missed it" or "forgot" and says he realizes perfection is asking to much. My question is to anybody in this field, are you given a first piece, to establish your program, and make any adjustments, and or corrections on the 2nd, or are your programs normally great out of the gate? And does the pressure of losing your job, hurt or make you a better programmer ? I am starting to wonder about my capabilities.

 

Thanks,

Frank

[Scot]

Frank,

 

Hang in there! I'm not one with a great deal of experience, but I can attest to the pressures from upper management. One programmer for 30 cnc's sounds pretty impressive. I wonder if your boss knows how hard it is to replace not only a good programmer, but someone whom sincerely cares about his position like yourself.

My two cents...the pressure of losing my job has pushed me towards finishing a degree in college. So it maybe hasn't made me a better programmer, but a better person.

The more you worry, it seems like the mistakes will start coming out of the woodwork. Stay focused and confident.

 

Good Luck,

Scot

[gcode]

For the last 4 months I've been working on 8 different parts made from 15 ft by 4ft by 6 to 8in thick alum plate. I've been told the

stock is $15 to $18K a piece.

Its all 5x work and running a file for the first time is very stressful.

So far my files have been good the first time. One of the other programmers here junked a part though.

They didn't fire him, but they weren't very happy about it.

 

We use nothing but CAD ( solid) models and

verify all our gcode.

I've caught dozens of mistake while verifying the gcode.

Trying to do complex parts with wireframe only is very hard. Lack of verification makes it even worse.

Your boss needs to rethink his "no cad models"

policy. Its making your job much harder and costing him money.

[Zero]

quote:

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Your boss needs to rethink his "no cad models"

policy. Its making your job much harder and costing him money.

---

+1000 on that

[Die Sinker]

Frank- Just a piece of advice. Take it easy on yourself. I am retired now, but when I was drawing and programming, I made press and drop forging dies. These are one-of-a-kind jobs, they had to be made right the first time (theory), but mistakes ARE made and we deal with it. You were hired because you know what you are doing-you would not have the job otherwise. Slow down and check your work-rushing is where mistakes are made! If the boss doesn't like it, let him program for 30 machines! He will soon "see the light". If he doesn't let up, QUIT. There are many other jobs out there. Believe me.

[mcpgmr]

Relax, The big guy as you call him sounds like a real Di#* Head. Everyone gets caught in a rut now and then. Do you like it there ? If not I would start looking and if you find somthing better go for it. I worked in the family business for eight years and my Brother was the boss. By the time I left I had ZERO self esteem because of the never ending guilt trip. My point is don't let one person brow beat you into submission. You obviously have talent being the only programmer taking care of 30 cnc's with multi axis capabilities. No one gets it right the first time I don't care who they are. There is always somthing that needs to be changed or improved. In most cases there has to be a setup part to work with. What if your down to the last op and you have a day left before you have to deliver the parts and somthing goes wrong. Who looks bad then. Not you. The guy who priced the job and didn't take human error factor into consideration. I could go on forever so I'm going to stop now. Take your time and check your work. Look for the obvious things first. If you have good post processors you shouldn't have to examine the code too closely. Good luck !

[Metal Flake (clocked in)]

Yo Scot! What was your major? Just curious. Also, how does it complement your previous skills? If you were to do it over, would you chose a different major, another major, and why.

 

I'm really trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to get my sorry a$$ back in school.

 

Many thanks!!

 

Dan

[LaszloK]

Hello Frank, Nobody likes to make mistakes but everyone does. I think your boss is making a big mistake by restricting you to 20 year old methods. CAD models pay for themselves in time (a little learning curve). I'll bet your ratio of errors to good cuts is very low. Consider all the operations on all the parts machined. Anyway, hang in there and keep focused on your job and don't get gun shy. If your boss doesn't appreciate your efforts I'm sure there are many others that would.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Frank,

If you have the time to back the offesets up and "creep" up on the the part then you can do one part. Not many people with that kind of time in most shops.

 

The pressure of "shape up/ship out" seldom has the the desired effect. Either you get so nerved up you make silly mistakes, or your motivation is gone and your heart is not in it no more. It does not create a good situation for the employee or management.

[chris m]

quote:

---

What if your down to the last op and you have a day left before you have to deliver the parts and somthing goes wrong. Who looks bad then. Not you. The guy who priced the job and didn't take human error factor into consideration.

---

That might be how it should be, but if you f__k it up, YOU are the a$$hole; just the way it is.

 

Frank, just take your time and make sure that you are concentrating fully on the task at hand when creating your geometry before you lay the toolpaths down; if the hole's in the right place on the screen, it'll be in the right place on the part. The mistakes in the shop are just things you'll need to try to tighten up by slowing down a little; think twice, calculate twice, think twice again....

 

C

[Lee.]

Frank,

 

Do you have to do a certain amount of parts in a set time?

 

I'm trying to figure out if you could do more checking, ie, verify, backplot, N-see, those sorts of things may help.

 

Let Me know.

[gcode]

quote:

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but if you f__k it up, YOU are the a$$hole; just the way it is.

---

You can get it right a million times, but its the screw ups that get remembered

[Guest]

Yes sir gcode,

 

It is surely a case of what have you done for me lately.

 

As I like to say, "this is a thankless trade"

 

It's to bad too, it was not always like this.

[Müřlıń®]

+1000 to gcode....

 

 

One UH-OH will knock down a whole row of AT-A-Boy's in one fell swoop........

 

"One manual programmer with 30-CNC's.....OH my...."

 

Your boss would have a hard time finding someone who can do that....

 

quote:

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think twice, calculate twice, think twice again....

---

Sound wisdom....

 

quote:

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It's to bad too, it was not always like this.

---

I blame ISO 9000.......

[Steve Biehl - Cimquest Inc]

quote:

---

As I like to say, "this is a thankless trade"

---

This job puts a target on your back and in most cases, on your front.

 

'They' are always trying to get you coming and going. Best word of advice, get better or at least make them 'know' you are better.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Take it easy on yourself. Programming takes time to do it right. When you're rushed, you make mistakes, and we ALL make mistakes. I've hit programs right on the money the first time (lukily for me, one was a $12,000 Titanium Forging that had $20,000 worth of labor into it already) and I've really screwed up the first time. The screw ups all have one thing in common... ...SOME GUY LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER ASKING WHEN IT'S GOING TO BE DONE!!!...

 

Hang in there bud...

 

JM2C

[Scot]

Metal Flake,

 

One thing the "Big man" can't take away is your education and experience.

Although I finished two different associate degrees, I am still plugging away for my bachelor's. I am a huge schooly! I really enjoy taking challenging and interesting classes. My girlfriend is an elementary teacher and she is hoping that I finish a teaching degree soon!! I've been attending part-time for seven years now (slow learner) and have seen many changes in the education system. One change that has finally taken hold is the distant education (internet) classes. Some U.W. colleges have wonderful programs set up for this type of learning. Doesn't beat the traditional classroom setting, but it makes it convenient for the working people.

The first step is the hardest.

 

I would love to explain to Frank some of the totally ignorant things I have done in my short career. Sometimes I am amazed that I am still alive let alone worried about my career.

 

Good Luck,

Scot

[Chris Rizzo]

I know you must feel Frank. Hang in there. Here's another recent morale / soul searching thread. A common link between yours and rstuart's issues seem related to management (and micro-management) not allowing the programmer to utilize the proper tools for the desired outcome; cad models in your case, cutters in rstuarts.

[dan m]

quote:

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but if you f__k it up, YOU are the a$$hole; just the way it is.

---

Like i like to say around here "your only remembered for the last thing you did."

 

I had a boss 1 time tell me he could find some one to do what i do for less money. So i called him on it and made a couple phone calls and had a job starting the next day. now I'm making alot more a hour with no over time. Where i found out he had to pay my replacement almost 2x what he was paying me with a company car and a fancy title. I'm alot happier now and hopfully he is with my replacement.

[Frank]

Thanks for all the responses The shop (big guy) recently has taken the position to change all my programs to machine 0....so a lot of the programs that are falling apart, are programs that have been running for a couple years, and then all I have to do is take my majic wand and either flip the part over, or change all my "Y" 0's During the couple years they have been running, there has been a lot of changes, and not all the changes are made in my office, so besides having to pull up my old geometry, and rotate it, I also have to look thru a stack of fax's, old prints, new prints, and figure out what's what. I'm not trying to make excuses. The bottom line is if it's not a good part, it's my fault. And normally when inspection finds it, and I look back into my program, I also find it, and it looks obvious. I think Jimmy's got it right, I am so nerved up I'm making silly mistakes, and I think shape up or ship out, has taken the wind from my sails. I need to get remotivated, or find another job. I love doing this kind of work, so it will definatly still be in this field, but maybe with a more supportive big guy.

 

Thanks again

[chip]

THHHHHAT........! My friend is why they pay us the BIG BUCKS!

 

 

Everyone except me!

[jeff]

quote:

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If you have the time to back the offesets up and "creep" up on the the part then you can do one part.

---

+1000

Especially if you have no set-up piece to work with.

 

Is there anyway someone can "proofread" your programs before they are ran?

Do the operators carry NO responsibility at all?

 

As of right now, I am the only cad programmer with 8 cnc's,and I tell my guys all the time "just because I made this program on Mastercam doesn't mean it's right".

 

They are getting spoiled when it comes to single blocking my programs,most of the time they don't even watch the screen to see where the tool is going.

[David Czerw Triumph Gear Systems]

quote:

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The shop (big guy) recently has taken the position to change all my programs to machine 0....so a lot of the programs that are falling apart, are programs that have been running for a couple years,...

---

Sounds to me like he should be held somewhat responsible. ( If it ain't broke...)Hang in there, I used to supply a shop with 30+ cnc's myself in Troy. Lots of stress .I sometimes make a printout of the part and write dowm all the info for each area that needs to be machined and cross them off when I'm done. (Anything not crossed off means I missed it, go back and finish.) I call it a road-map. It beats sifting thru pages and pages of bp's.

[RDub]

I think the key factor is confidence. I have been working for the same company for 9 years, and one thing I notice as I see certain people get ridden is that it destroys their self confidence. It starts off with them just wondering if they are going to get hassled for everything they do. It causes them to focus so hard on areas they think there may be a problem that they miss the really easy glaring mistakes. It doesn't matter whether we are talking about Programmers, Setup guys, Operators or Assy people! The bottom line is that when you start this cycle of screwing up even when you think you are paying more and more attention, that is where the self doubt comes in. I have sort of learned to be a rock... whether they are riding me to get something done/do something better or not hassling me at all, I need to just work at my own pace (which is pretty darn fast), tell them i will be done when I will be done and not listen to their negative comments. They may think so, but the shape up or ship out idealogy will not help make better parts. You just gotta trust yourself and considering you have plenty of experience that should be easy! Good Luck!

 

Robert Winters

Programmer

Upland Fab, Inc.

[chip]

Absolutly... It kind of has to do with confidence. You have to be able to go in and do what you do best. If I went in to surgery and a Dr. Cruzed in and said, "ahhhhh welllll I think I can do this....." I would not want him do go through with the surgery! Know what your doing is the best you know how to for your job. Don't be soooo OVERCONFIDENT, that your not willing to learn and try new things! It's tough! We all do it here. That's what's cool, is we can all relate in some manner or another.

 

Right before I worked here. I worked at a place where I was the only mold maker in a small shop. I shared an office with the owner. He did everything in his power to try to destroy my every decision. It got sooo bad. If I drilled a hole He had something to say to question it. I had to get out! He was attacking me personally. I laughed it off. I was PISSED though!

 

Here its cool.... I get to design a lot. Program everything, set-up and run. Were competing against our neighbors across the atlantic who work for pennies. We are having to learn to get the job done quicker and faster or all our work is gonna go over seas! I struggle. Hopefully my accomplishes out weigh my mistakes. I get one shot! It's tough out there! Here they don't treat me good.... But don't treat me bad!