Learning curve..

[dcbeattie]

What do I tell the 'boss' who asks what the average learning time to do simple (drill a couple of holes and maybe a pocket) Mastercam projects. This would be for a skilled machinist with some computer skills.. no cad/cam however..

[jeff]

Does this include creating the necessary geometry to program from?

Depending on the learning speed of this person,I would say aat the most a week of solid learning to be able to do it efficiently.

[Guest]

I would agree with jeff.

 

I would think a week would be ample time to achieve some level of skill with the simple stuff.

[cadcam]

I will go with the other to do simple stuff.

A week of a few contors and drilling and pockets.

 

you could be going not real fast thow.

[Storkman]

I've been doing it for 10 years and I'm still in the "learning curve".

[Brendan P]

quote:

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Does this include creating the necessary geometry to program from?

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This is a good question...

You can be the best machinist,but have no freaking idea how to actually create geometry never mind on a computer.

 

I've been programming for 5 years,(3) mcam,and I still have soo much to learn.

I only wish I could spend some time with the good mold makers....

[Paul Decelles]

Simple stuff, 3 days. That is the average basic class length for Mastercam. I'm pretty confident I could teach my mother to run Mastercam in three days (I'm not saying she would be terribly proficient, I'd have to teach her to point the mouse the right direction first...lol).

[Kannon]

I would agree,

the simple stuff shouldnt take more then a week!

 

Brian

[Ronaldf]

Not to slam MC or any another program

I would quote 3 to 6 weeks.

 

The person's proir experence

is the biggest factor.

 

Prior computer experince?

Know how to use windows?

Can they open a Help File by themself?

 

 

Quote

"Why can't they make the safety seal on a peanutbutter jar actually come off in one piece?"

If peanutbutter jar safety seals came off in one piece somebody would try to put them back on.

 

Regards

Ron

[email protected]

SoftMold.com

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

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This would be for a skilled machinist with some computer skills.. no cad/cam however

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A machinist already knows about the coords system and knows how to read prints. Since you have computer skills and can prol fire up programs, you already know how to use your mouse.

 

If you are of average smarts, in a couple hrs you can have instant sucess in making simple geometry with holes and pockets.

 

In three days you can be using the program pretty good.

 

Like everthing, the more practice, the better you get......

[Guest]

quote:

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Not to slam MC or any another program

I would quote 3 to 6 weeks.

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You sir, simply do not know of what you speak.

 

BTW,Welcome to the forum

 

[Brendan P]

quote:

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A machinist already knows about the coords system and knows how to read prints.

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Murlin....

Not the ones that work at my place.

 

John,I totally take for granted what I can do in mastercam.

Sometimes I think about having to train someone the basics.

What seems soo easy for me,could be extreemly hard for someone else.

[Guest]

I don't know Brendan.

 

Go back to the original question. A "skilled machinist with some computer skills, no cad/cam though"

 

Now I agree different people have different learning levels but as the question that was asked. 3 to 6 weeks is totally out of whack IMLTHO. An individual totally green, maybe but for simple stuff...

 

 

Just can't see it.

 

Maybe we can agreee to disagree

 

[gcode]

Nobody has asked a basic, but important question.

The the newbie computer literate?

 

If he's never seen a computer before a whole lot of the learning curve will have nothing to do with Mastercam

[Guest]

Actually gcode this was alluded to in the original post.

 

quote:

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This would be for a skilled machinist with some computer skills.. no cad/cam however..

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Now to what level of the individual skill, that could be an issue.

[G Caputo]

I don't think 3-6 weeks is out of line at all. It depends on what you call simple and what resources you have to work with. I am what I would consider a "skilled" machinist. I was at Mcam training for 2 weeks and came back to the shop and it was here you go, make this part. No one at this shop had any Mcam training. I have a generic post off of the cd that are machines don't like (and not sure if it is the post or me causing the problems). No tools defined in a library. Tools longer than some people's "Z" travel of there machines. A computer with a fresh install of Mastercam, crashes/video problems and all. My boss breathing down my neck. Models that won't convert into mastercam and here I am I am supposed to make a good "efficient" program from a desk environement right off the bat without crashing into clamps, the table the head of the machine, when the job is rotated at a funky angle, etc. STL models that won't verify without getting the "stl watertight blah blah blah" error. I don't think so. Simple to program and run at the machine, yes, from a desk with no experience, no. To many factors involved. There are alot of variables to what some would describe as a simple job. It's been 2 years and all I do now is program from an office and I still am learning tons of things each day. Sure I could make it look pretty on a screen, but in the real world? JM2C

[Rob Dusenbury CAD/CAM CONSULTING]

quote:

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What do I tell the 'boss' who asks what the average learning time

quote:

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This would be for a skilled machinist with some computer skills.. no cad/cam however..

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Just curious why are you asking this now when you have been a member for over four years.

 

Just reading all the post these fine people have written over the last four years should make you pretty proficient already.

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

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Murlin....

Not the ones that work at my place.

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LOL, good one.....

 

Well, in my defination, skilled machinist already knows what speeds, feeds, and stratagies to use. There is a diffrence between a machinist and a machine operator.

 

G Caputo:

 

It was unfair of your boss to lay all that on you in the first place. It just shows his ignorance. You do makes some good points on all the other things that are needed to be able to run Mastercam or any other CAD/CAM software in your shop.

 

One would have to have all these things set up before you could start training totally green CAD/CAM personel.

 

Over the course of 10 years, I trained several guys in my shop to use Mastercam. Within hrs, they were making toolpaths on complicated 3-d geometry that I engeneered up.

 

No custom libraries or Ops were used at all.

They just typed in their speeds and feeds and retracts and were good to go.....

 

All of these guys fit the discription of the first post.

[dcbeattie]

Thanks guys!! I got way more posts than I expected.. I was guessing about one week to do simple tasks from start to finish. But I wanted a confirmation. The issue is we have been using Mastercam for about 5 years on various machines. We have one person who still doesn't get it. He has trouble with simple tasks. Like a rectangle with a hole grid and maybe a little pocket. He can read drawings, go to a mill and make the part, but the xfer to MC is difficult for him. We do mostly one off, or at most 10 parts. Some are complex and would be difficult to make by hand.. Mastercam has been great for this. At this stage it takes most of the guys less time to make the drawing, set up the machining and make the part on the cnc than by hand.. Again thank you for all the replies..

[G Caputo]

quote:

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You do makes some good points on all the other things that are needed to be able to run Mastercam or any other CAD/CAM software in your shop.

 

One would have to have all these things set up before you could start training totally green CAD/CAM personel.

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Murlin,

Not to argue your points, but what was I to do? I got a great opportunity to learn more things than I could have imagined. We didn't have anybody doing any offline programming to begin with so there was nothing that could have been set up or forseen in the first place. I got a wonderful opportunity to advance myself and make myself more valuable than I was, and I went into it head first. I read this entire forum from top to bottom, both at home and at work while learning Mcam and I still read every post every day, whether it is relevant to what I do or not, I read books, messed with demo, etc.

quote:

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It was unfair of your boss to lay all that on you in the first place. It just shows his ignorance.

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I think that was the smartest thing he could have done. Instead of tying up a half a million to a million dollar machine with me programnming it on the the machines controller, I sit at a $2000 computer and make program to keep cycle times up instead of having program time at the machine. I feel proud that he thought I could handle the job at hand and gave me the opportunity to do so. He allowed me to get a computer based on recommendations learned here, let's me buy any and all tooling that would improve efficiency, sent me for training etc. I feel fortunate to be in the situation I am in and really do enjoy what I do (NOT the first few months though).

 

Most importantly though, a HUGE THANKS to anyone that has posted on this forum. This is by far the most valuable tool that I know of and the laughs help the days when things aren't going quite right

 

That's my 2 cents one more time

[Müřlıń®]

I wasnt putting you down Greg you done good....

 

I was only saying that when I brought my guys in they were productive the first day without any outside training because I had all that set up.

 

As long as we were productive, we could concentrate on learning the particulars at our own pace without alot of added pressure.

[mayday]

we have a guy that just returned from a weeks training. he is running our haas. he still is confused about the inc and abs settings in the parm pages of the opps. he thinks it means G90 and G91 in the program. I project a year for him to learn basics. I can only reteach the same questions only a few times then it becomes "I dont have time figure it out yourself"

[hordur]

when i started out, i had NO machining skillz (spent 5 weeks in machining class, with some limited ISO-code) but pretty advanced 3d skillz.

but no cam-experience what so ever.

 

I had no guides, no references and nobody to teach me.

 

It took me about an hour to figure out howto drill holes and about 2 days howto create lathe contours with toolpaths and so on.

 

after 2 weeks i could do mostly anything, drilling/milling/turning.

 

after 3 months im the sole programmer on my workstation, doing ALL of the programs/corrections.

 

and i must say, there´s little i cant do in a day or two tops

 

but practice makes perfect, im constantly finding new ways to improve my work, thats the beuty of this job, its never simple, but rarely hard just demands time, patience, computer-wiz and a bucket full of coffe

[Johnny M]

This is too funy, almost same storie

 

Eight years ago I left a very good job at an auto plant to help my dad's General machine shop, at the time he had a Manual Boring mill, manual lathe and mill and 1 worker with him.

So after a year he decides that he wants a cnc machine, so he buy's a small 20 x 40 cnc mill,

 

Well the machine came in on the monday, training till thursday making parts on friday. The only backround I had was Autocad software.

 

we have been doing well.

 

The point I guess is if you have the drive to learn and want to be good at what you do, you will do good. For those who take a half xxxx attempt to lean will fail.

( Just like everything elese in this world )

 

 

Learning Curve for Basic M/C Operations no more than a week.

 

My 2 Canadian Cents

[Kevangel]

It also helps if there is someone in the building that can answer a simple question...instead of rumaging around for one hour by yourself...what I went through by myself as I added a computer, then a conversational VMC , then a conversational CNC Lathe, THEN Mastercam...wow. My hands had never touched a computer until mid 90's..