Mill purchase, need advice

[Bob W.]

I am ready to purchase a CNC mill and I would like some input from people with CNC experience. This will go in my garage and the two that I am considering are a Haas Mini Mill or a Fadal EMC. My concerns with the Haas are the Z range (10", or 4" to 14") and the spindle speed (6000 rpm). The Fadal has 14" of z travel, 7500 rpm spindle, and included high speed machining in the controller. I will primarily be machining small aluminum and copper pieces with occasional surface milling. If anyone has advice or input I would like to hear it.

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

[ 10-14-2005, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: BWolcott ]

[DrewG]

I have HAAS equipment, however if your going to be milling aluminum and copper, I'd take advantage of the Fadal's higher RPM and the HS Milling, especially if you are going to be surfacing. That's where you will really see the difference with the HS Milling. The added Z axis travel is also a bonus. Personally if I was buying, I would buy a Daewoo, Kia, or Hyundai over either of them. I'm sorry but I've had so much better accuracy, and "UP TIME" with my foreign made machines than any of my Haas's. I've been through more parts and have had so many "stupid" break downs on my Haas that I will never buy one again.

[Bob W.]

How do the prices of the mentioned brands compare to the Haas or Fadal machines of comparable size?

[Guest]

I haven't priced the Kia's or Hyundai's in couple of years but when I did the were comprably priced, in some cases lower priced with a longer list of features.

[smokey_44]

I worked in a blow mould shop with a fadal.....now I call that machine a FATAL... one night we set up triple cavity mould , watched the roughing and the start of the semi finishing, then we left for the night, next morning the machine had finished the cavities alright ...problem was it finished them 1/2" off in the X axis.....lol that wasn't funny at the time though...the FATAL people told us the macgine had "lost" its machine origin ?????? lol

 

 

Dave

[Kevangel]

"for your garage" , I would also consider a Milltronics as some can come with single phase. They have a ridgid way machine with toolchanger and fill enclosure. mid 30's. I have a lathe and a machining center that brand, My landlord (for shop) has 6 m-centers, 4 cnc mills, and 1 cnc lathe that brand. you get what you pay for...to a degree. They have a web site with pricing and specs, some USA made. Good luck!

[Matthew]

We have a First machine here. Taiwanese machine, but great for small parts, small footprint. 8000 rpm. Here is a link. Fanuc control.

 

http://www.first.com.tw/product.htm

 

We bought our from the dealer in Mississauga.

 

http://www.heinmanmachinery.com/vertical.htm

 

3 phase 220 Volts though. Don't know if your garage would be equipped for it.

[HevyMetl]

I would also look at the Fryer machines. I have been very impressed with the performance. It beats the pants off of the 3016 and 4020 fadals we have. The MB10 would be the closest option, but the spindle speed would put you back in the range of the HASS. It positioning and repeatablility have really surprised me for machine of this size and cost. Their service team is first rate, and I have always recieved calls back within the hour from them. I can't say that for my Fadals. You can also get the Fryer with the highspeed package, but remeber none of these machines are really set-up to do high speed machining.

[L Hanft]

I'd take a good look at Milltronics. Considered Haas, bought Milltronics. US company, good service. No problems in 2 years. Have 3 VM-15's Haas mini doesn't compare.

[Moldmaker74]

quote:

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3 phase 220 Volts though. Don't know if your garage would be equipped for it.

---

I have a Mitsubishi mill at home and I bought a rotary phase converter on ebay. It works flawlessly. FYI, you will need one rated for two times your spindle HP.

[DC Gorn]

Haas mini has a 15,000 RPM spindle option. This can improve everything about machining Aluminum. Where Haas wins is if you are going to use a 4th axis. For under 10 grand you can have a true 4th axis.

 

Warning 15,000 RPM mini are not for steel. They have torque issues at lower RPMs.

[Kennamichael]

I'd steer clear of a Fatal.

[Kevangel]

You can also rig a static phase convertor to a 3 phase Y wound motor to generate 3 phase electrcity although you have to hear it run all the time if in same room. The plain static type box convertors only trick a 3 phase mottor into running so you lose one third power and can't reverse "quickly for reverse tapping"... I would investigate the electric power issue for what is best for you including if you move into a bigger "plant" later.

[Bob W.]

Is anyone familiar with the Romi D400? It looks promising.

 

http://www.romiusa.com/d400.htm

[Kevangel]

I looked at Romi link, noticed it only has 495 pounds of Z axis thrust? Its the spooky thing about smaller machines. RW milltronics has 2,000 z axis for reference. Be careful around "slippery machine tool salesman" has been my experiance. Local dealer for what ever brand; can make ALL the diffference on what to buy. where abouts are you?

[kkominiarek]

make a list/spreadsheet.....whether you spend 30k or 200k make sure you get what you need/want.

 

[*]list what the machine must do/perform

list what the machine can do but not neccessary for the work you have

list options you may need/want for future.

list all specs - feeds/speeds/rpm/z axis thrust,

positioning...etc....etc

list local or national or international

(think spare parts and service)

If possible have ea vendor cut a part for you.

They can optimize speeds/feeds.

 

Don't get the machine.....then say I thought it could handle this operation

 

hth

[ToolMan184]

I have a romi D760. Tool changer sucks, support is even worse. I would stay far far far away from Romi.

[Micromoldmaker]

I would definitely take a look at Hurco. Great converstional control for 2 D and 2 1/2 D. I don't think they are priced any higher than aas or fatals.

This is a blurb for the VM1 frm Hurco's web site:

 

"VM1 Best in Class Standard Features:

 

Low base price of $35,900 (USA only packaging)

Large work cube of 26"x14"x18"

Very small footprint for size of work cube

Options and accessories are “plug and play”

High speed 8,000 RPM spindle

Powerful 15 hp spindle motor

Cartridge spindle design

Robust UltiMax control and software tools

User-friendly, ergonomic control console

6,200 lbs solid frame design using FEA

16-station, automatic, swing-arm tool changer

Auto way lube separation system

Heavy duty linear rails in all three axis

Oversized, double nut ball screws

Automatic central lubrication system

Servo driven, no need for mechanical counter balance

UL, CSA, NFPA 79 independently certified, with CE certification option"

[crazy^millman]

+1000 on the Hurco for the money.

 

 

I might even look at the Mill-tronics.

 

HTH

[Roger Peterson]

I would 2nd or 3rd or wherever it's at on the milltronics. The mini's have 20" of z travel or so. Their controllers calculate like 1200 bps. They are quite popular in this area with very little complaints. I don't have anything bad to say about Hurco or Haas (don't know much about the mini fadal's) but the Z travel would do it for me. Also the I know the milltronics have actual knobs for the feedrate and spindle overides. And if you like fanuc or seimens controllers I beleive you can get them on the milltronics or fryers.

 

The single phase machines work well, I beleive you would need to use a tapping head. If you get 3 phase you would need to have a rotary phase converter. The static converters will only work if you have a motor that just needs to be turned on and off. Spindles are typically controlled by an AC motor controller whichs modulates the voltage going to the motor and you will fry it if you try and use a static phase converter. Using a phase converter on a machine is not a bad thing, while it is running idle it is not drawing a lot of current. Just make sure you don't use the generated leg to feed the transformer that runs the controller.

 

 

HTH

 

 

good luck!

[Slick]

It's kind of a "What you like" situation in a way. My only suggestion, how's the service for the sales rep in your area. The little guys get left out a lot if you're service department isn't in the area, or is understaffed. If you know anyone who's bought from certain dealers you should ask them wha tthey think of the service.

 

I've heard a lot of good thongs about the Mini Mill, a lot of bang for the buck!

[Kelly Burns]

quote:

---

I haven't priced the Kia's or Hyundai's in couple of years but when I did the were comprably priced, in some cases lower priced with a longer list of features.

---

Are you for real?

 

We have three Haas Mini's, standard off the shelf 6000 Rs, use them daily for steel and Aluminum, easy to fix, service is OK. Unless its something with a fried board we fix them ourselves.

[Guest]

Yeah I was,.

 

When I priced those I don't even think the Haas mini was available. The smallest at that time, was I believe the VF-0.

 

It has, like I stated been awhile.

[crazy^millman]

No he is not for real he olny said that so you would question him on it.

[rick sipp]

we have 2 fadals and 2 haas.the 4020 fadal has been here 14 years and still runing.(barely)milling d2,4140,crs,s-7,and anyting else we throw at it.I like them better than haas for there control canned cycles.(mdi)Our haas machines are 2 years old and we have had many problems,but I do know a company that has 6 and getting more,and love them.

If I had a choice it would be Fadal.any other questions on fadal just ask..