toolmaker and machinist?

[Chip Blue]

What is the difference between a toolmaker and machinist?

[Guest]

Most toolmakers are machinists

but most machinists are NOT toolmakers

[Allan]

Machinist makes the part to print, QC checks it sometimes Machinist re-makes/re-works part. Ship it.

Toolmaker takes nice looking QC'd part and makes it work/fit by sometimes butchering that part to make the assembly work.

 

Just what I see.

 

Allan

[Tim Johnson]

We are a production job shop, but the worst machinists in our shop are card carrying toolmakers (after the Germans retired). They work slower, seem to have problems with odd shaped parts, and think they're too good to take advise from a precision machinist. The last three people let go in our shop were tool makers from shops that had shut down.

[Jim ..]

I,m a toolmaker I design press tools from simple to 18 stage progresion tools for electrionic parts, design the parts if required, programme the VMC, and oversee the assemble of the tools.

I give my drawings to the machinst to make.

[DavidB]

A good toolmaker knows how to fix his mistakes

[pap]

well, there were some ugly things said about toolmakers here. i've been a mold maker for 32 + years. there is always room for both toolmakers and precision machinists in any good toolroom. however, there is a little more to toolmaking than just machining.

 

"does this mean we're not friends anymore ?"

[chris m]

To me, a true toolmaker is a person who can take a drawing of a formed, stamped, or molded part [depending often on their specialty] and design, machine, build, and dial in the tooling required to make that part.

 

A true machinist ["manual machinist", anyway] can take a drawing of a part and a chunk of stock and come back to you with the part in his hand; developing the method, designing and fabricating required workholding, and machining the part entirely on his own.

 

A CNC machinist, in my mind, can: write simple programs to do things like chip a surface, spin a pocket in a plate, perform drilling of simple patterns, etc; can make simple fixtures, vise jaws, etc; set up the machine independently using setup sheets or verbal direction; and can prove out and tweak programs for maximum performance while on the machine.

 

Many people span portions of all of these skills and should be snatched up and held with both hands when found...

[within a thou]

toolmakers are machinists that specialize in one area whether it be fixture making dies moulds etc and make things work a machinist is a jack of all trades as long as he has a print.

 

machinists rely on good engineering (ie make it to print)

 

toolmakers rely on disc grinders (ie make it work)

[Guest]

Exactly a jack of all trades and a master of none.

 

Toolmakers are masters at what they do.

 

Whatever it might be

[Wet-Tech]

I have seen many a machinist try to be toolmakers or moldmakers and it doesn't seem to work out. They can't understand why it has to be that perfect.

[Kevangel]

Toolmakers make tools i.e molds ,dies, gages, jigs fixtures and special machines. Machinists make parts. that is really the difference. Toolmakers typically are better paid and have more knowledge and a greater overview of whats going on and can be a real pain in the ar$e from an employer standpoint(I think they are frustrated they never started their own shop and as such can be bitter when they get older). According to ohio gov. report average machinist wage in Ohio is 17.00 hr, toolmakers $22.00 an hour.

[Bruce Caulley]

How is you trade training laid out in Morth America?

In OZ we basically follow the old British method of trade qualifications. You could be a fitter and turner or a toolmaker. If you chose to do fitting and turning you can "specialise" in either fitting i.e machine maintenance, fabrication, etc or Machining i,e the stuff we do. A toolmaker here is really just a specialised from of fitter and turner. One is no better than the other.

 

To confuse matters further you can get certificates in just machining: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class. There seems to be a lot of variations in terminology. For example when people on the forum use the term operator to describe the one actually using the machine, I think the term here would be trades assistant, or T.A. An operator here is a trade qualified machinist. (Or fitter and Turner/toolmaker)

 

The problem as I see it now is that with a lot of trade training now work based, not many apprentices get much manual machining time.

 

Bruce

[toolall1]

wow take that toolmaker guys.

i think bolth are skilled areas.

the sky is the limit, it all depends on the complexidy of the product and youre willingness to learn.i make mostly 3-d trodes and another guy runs my toolpaths .we work together.as should we.

my reply as a toolmaker is i thought only circus people work in tenths!!!!

[ToolMan184]

quote:

---

We are a production job shop, but the worst machinists in our shop are card carrying toolmakers (after the Germans retired).

---

From what Ive seen, most "CARD CARRYING" Toolmakers cant even square a block on a mill. This seems to be a large corporations way of making them feel important. M2C

[Carl Vallance]

Machinist

Assembles, repairs, and fabricates metal parts by operating mechanical equipment. Assembles parts into sub-units or complete units. Uses blueprints and design sketches to ensure the proper dimensions and tolerance levels of the finished product. Requires a high school diploma or its equivalent. May be required to meet certain certifications in field and to have at least 0-2 years of experience. Has knowledge of commonly-used concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Primary job functions do not typically require exercising independent judgment. Typically reports to a supervisor/manager.

 

Tool and Die Maker

Builds and repairs machine shop tools. Requires a high school diploma or its equivalent. May be required to complete an apprenticeship and/or formal training in area of specialty with at least 5 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Familiar with a variety of the field's concepts, practices, and procedures. Relies on experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of complicated tasks. May lead and direct the work of others. Typically reports to a supervisor or manager.

[beej]

quote:

---

Machinist makes the part to print, QC checks it sometimes Machinist re-makes/re-works part. Ship it.

Toolmaker takes nice looking QC'd part and makes it work/fit by sometimes butchering that part to make the assembly work.

---

WOW!!! If this represents In-House Solutions way of thinking, then In-House in a very simple minded place to work. It seems an apology might be in order.

 

Work in a tool shop with no toolmakers and you'll be looking for a place whose keys still fit in the door soon.

[Matt @ Trio Tech]

I think that the Toolmakers need some defense here, maybe it just seems that all the Toolmakers are out working and the machinist are efin the dog on the internet.

 

The difference is simple.

A Tool maker has to be a compatant machinist in order to use a variety of equpitment to produce a Tool/fixture/die/part/etc. A Toolmaker can work as a Machinist.

 

Machinists can't be and/or work as a Toolmaker, other wise they would be a Toolmaker. A general Machinist has the knowledge to produce any given part specific to the equiptment they are trained on. Machinists here push alot of buttons to make it look like they are working. Alot of CNC Operators consider themselves Machinists. This is Incorrect.

[Cuda84]

A good toolmaker can do anything a Machinest can do. A good Machinest is just a good Machinest.

 

Most Good Machinest's eventually become Toolmakers. If the place they work offers an aprentice program. If not your working in the wrong place. Notice the pay difference mentioned above.

 

You cannot become a toolmaker without first being a Machinest. The only thing you need to be a Machinest is alive.

[smokey_44]

"Alot of CNC Operators consider themselves Machinists. This is Incorrect."

 

I could not agree with you more. "button pushers"

 

 

Dave

[toolall1]

The difference is simple.

A Tool maker has to be a compatant machinist in order to use a variety of equpitment to produce a Tool/fixture/die/part/etc. A Toolmaker can work as a Machinist.

 

Machinists can't be and/or work as a Toolmaker, other wise they would be a Toolmaker. A general Machinist has the knowledge to produce any given part specific to the equiptment they are trained on. Machinists here push alot of buttons to make it look like they are working. Alot of CNC Operators consider themselves Machinists. This is Incorrect.

--------------------------------------------------

A good toolmaker can do anything a Machinest can do. A good Machinest is just a good Machinest.

[toolall1]

dave,

i aree also

[within a thou]

we call button pushers over paid monkeys, would call them dog effers but dogs ar colour blind and don;t know the difference between green and red

[toolall1]

this is good form and resourse.

thi bashing is f---ed up

[smokey_44]

lol ...green and red lol ....

 

thats about it!

lol

 

 

Dave