toolmaker and machinist?

[camgeneration]

i feel i need to stick up for moldmakers, i am not a "card carring" moldmaker, learned on the job, my true speciality is 3d work / cnc milling of cavity and core. moldmakers that use die grinders very much are not moldmakers, they are butchers. true ability is what is most important, not the title. in small shops the good machinist become moldmakers with time. moldmakers know what is important, and what is not, and how to fix problems, usually not with a die grinder. who eversaid the older moldmakers get mad that didn't start their own shop is right, that is why i started my own shop.

cam generation

[gavetta]

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Call me what you want just pay me...

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Amen to that one!

[toolall1]

Amen to that one!

[pap]

well, back in the day, moldmakers designed and built a complicated mold usually by himself, in about 10 to 14 weeks, and usually with no prints and MAYBE, a sample part. these days, industry wants it done in 5 or 6 weeks or less. that means us moldmakers need precision machinists AND button pushers to get the job done. not to mention, the designers and programmers. so we just have to learn to work together. BTW, i have seen the trade "moldmaker" actually fade away because of computerized machines. ironically, we made the molds for most computer parts. maybe ya'll should spend a little less time beatin' each other up.

[thoskins]

I'm with the other guys. Call me Blacksmith, Toolamker, Machinist, button pusher heck call me an A$$ just pay me. Names are for people who have time to stand around and worry about what they want to be the rest of us are to busy to care.

[tooljockey]

Toolmaker = an "over-educated" machinist.

[toolall1]

enough of this bull sh---t!!!!!!!

[ToolMan184]

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Yea but we ain't still driving a model t either. Only problem with cnc's is owners don't no the work that goes into running/ programming them. You blow up a cutter and its the end of the world.

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Well, I would beg to differ with you. I would think with the experience you claim you have you would catch the cutter before it blows up.

 

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Yes, me just like the bosses can feel and stop cranking the f'ing handle on a bridgeport if the cutter goes to hell. People in unrelated (management) type work have no clue what is involved in making something and maiking it work.

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And I bet you have no clue what is involved in making sure you have a job.

All I can say is this. If you think its that easy you should invest your lifes worth into starting a shop and getting about 10 employees just like yourself. I will bet the picture changes. Its amazing that when something goes wrong its always MANAGEMENT that screwed it up.

[Reverend Turk]

Ok, I see the all the posts on the difference between ToolMakers and Machinists. So let me throw in a little monkey wrench since noone on here seemed to mention my job. What does everyone on here have to say about the Model Maker? Where does that position fit into everyones definitions? When I see some replys on this I will post all the machines I work on during a normal day and explain exactaly what I do here. Just thought this would be interesting to see considering some of the definitions others had on the other tool titles.

[Tom Dorgan from American Precision]

From the shops I have worked in since I was 16 the main difference in a REAL MACHINIST and a toolmaker is speed. A machinist runs production within specified tolerances while a toolmaker runs precision pieces one at a time.

[Kevangel]

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while a toolmaker runs precision pieces one at a time.

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A toolmaker is supposed to be making tools "in the end atleast". If your not making tools you are not really a toolmaker, its in the name, toolmaker.I have seen people take the toolmaker title but really are doing a machinist job. I have worked with some machinists that are first class, etc. Moldmakers generally make the most $$$ but cnc has really changed that world (I have worked as a moldmaker before startin this place)...this country is awash in used machines right now...

[FITIN IRISH]

Bpin-Right on. I see so many so called CNC gurus,(not all) that don't even know who to identify a thread without having to look up the Machinists Manual. Or can't even work out a Tap Drill size etc, without having to look it up- love to see them on an Oil-Rig

 

How many can make a part on a manual machine,and grind thier own tools. How many can cut a double start left hand thread,or determine what the correct way to hold a shaft for turning, when to use a dividing head, (or even how)how to set up gearing,to cut a worm-manually. I could go on forever. What we have now are Machine Control experts etc. who havent a clue about machining.

 

That's why in my opinion this version of X is useless to me. Can you imagine if the same rules of Quality that we have to work to,PRECSION-FIRST TIME RIGHT-INSPECTION were applied to software-!!

 

How come I receive a product that has so many deficiences. I thought it went to "expert" Beta Testing sites.

 

How come they missed some of the most important stuff like 5axis backplot etc.

 

As a "Real Machinist" I just want control over my tool and know where it's going. That's the main reason for a CAM system. I am not interested in Fancy Menus,Toolbar States,or any of that happy horxxxxe. I do not want to know about Machine Controls or Definitions etc, I don't have 80 hours to spend like some people tweakin posts, thats why I pay maintenance, and as far as I am concerned that's the vendors job.

 

Sorry but I am having a real bad day here- Maybe it's time to go back to 9. Or even Hypermill

[Gary]

Yes Toolman I have an idea of what it takes to run a shop. Here I quote 90% of everything I make then deal with the customer about delevery dates get quotes on the stock heattreat ect. Then I draw if needed and machine the parts. Then its right up proper shippers with and make sure All the po's are in order. I am also running a shop from home about 15-20 hrs a week and taking 2 college classes. I would gladly take 10 of me and I ain't bragging. You can ask the owner here. So before you attack me you should no WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT. And Just for measure we are a 6 guy shop and I clearly stated bosses in general not my specific one. Have a nice day

[Hardmill]

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How come I receive a product that has so many deficiences. I thought it went to "expert" Beta Testing sites.

 

How come they missed some of the most important stuff like 5axis backplot etc.

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The "expert" beta sites are people working day in and out just

like you. Everyone cried to get it now only cry cause they wont take the time to learn it properly.

Why is it so many people can be successful with it ??

And some cant ?? HUH???

Seat time, Seat time, and less ranting.

 

Yeah its different, its supposed to be.

 

 

PEACE

[FITIN IRISH]

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The "expert" beta sites are people working day in and out just

like you. Everyone cried to get it now only cry cause they wont take the time to learn it properly.

Why is it so many people can be successful with it ??

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I guess you haven't been in the Machining Game for long. I would love to use this excuse on one of my customers if my parts are wrong- Well I worked hard-I worked day and nite and I am really sorry that parts are not to print- but will you still pay me for the parts. HA HA

 

This ain't about learning. I just cut a 5axis impleller- can you cut one ?? This is about a product that don't work right.

 

I have allways been a great proponent of Mastercam- but I am also a straight shooter-and I have the guts to speak up. I paid for my seat myself and I pay maintenance out of my own pocket. So I do expect quality for my money. I cannot afford to do a 5axis job, when basic verification won't work.So I am pissed off with it a the moment.

[#Rekd™]

Hi,

 

I am a licenced General Machinist with a Certificate of Aprenticiship and Qualifications.

 

I have extensive background in tool and die making, designing and building custom equipment, prototypes, patern making, welding (ARC, MIG, TIG), and model making!

 

I think it depends on what you can do not what you call yourself!!

 

John Ford

[Hardmill]

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I guess you haven't been in the Machining Game for long.

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Naw only about 23 yrs.

/edit/ /edit/

I know theres alot of pissin and moaning and I dont got time...blah..blah.. blah..

If you want to learn, you got to put the time in.

Posts have always been customizable, cause if their

not ppl bitch. Never ending circle.....

 

 

PEACE

[MATT Q]

Well you guys are all fired up on a Friday sounds like beer thirty to me. here's one on me

[ToolMan184]

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So before you attack me you should no WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

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I know what Im taking about. Maybe you should read your own post.

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And Just for measure we are a 6 guy shop and I clearly stated bosses in general not my specific one. Have a nice day

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So, I guess you know how every manager handles things?

I just love watching you get your panties in a wad. And just for measure you do about 15% of what a owner deals with.

[Gary]

I here ya your right you always are. Poor old bosses can't believe anyone would do it. To you sir you deserve it

[Guest]

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I do not want to know about Machine Controls or Definitions etc, I don't have 80 hours to spend like some people tweakin posts, thats why I pay maintenance, and as far as I am concerned that's the vendors job.

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Actually George, paying maintenance is simply to keep your software up to date. If you won't or don't have time to tweak your posts, you're right it is the vendors jobs and he's going to charge you for it.

 

I would think most resellers will get you going with some basic add-ons and mods but after that you are either on your own or you're paying someone else to do it.

 

That's why some of us take the time to learn how to do it.

[Gary]

THis posted by Randle in another thread has made my day. thanks

[cadcam]

Gerard I can cut what you want and in X what is the trouble brother.

The change was really needed.and I understand to getting the customers job done.

I am at home after a morning of Soccer reffing and now to program a part and setup a customers computer.

 

Gerard you have troubles you KNOW how to contact me.

So slow down and say hi.

 

Hope all is well.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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... How come I receive a product that has so many deficiences. I thought it went to "expert" Beta Testing sites.

 

How come they missed some of the most important stuff like 5axis backplot etc...

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Very simple actually. Not every Beta-Tester uses every function, then they CERTAINLY do not use every function the same way as another programmer. There are an infinite number of hardware and software combinations, etc... I'm not making excuses, I'm just telling you what the situation is. If you're going to gripe, please make an informed gripe.

[5 AX]

A machinist wants to be a toolmaker, and toolmaker wants to be an engineer.