toolmaker and machinist?

[within a thou]

hijack warning

 

The last place i was at they brought in some "button pushers" and I ent on nights for a bit to watch over them. we were roughing out a form with a 3 inch bullnose so I tell the guy hey watch this I have to use the washroom which was about 100 feet from the mill. So the guy starts watching it with strict instructions if the inserts go stop the machine and if ya don;t remember how to bring the head up to rotate the inserts just leave it idle I will take care of it myself. So needless to say I am in the middle of my dump and i hear the inserts go. does he stop the machine? nope so I am sitting in there listening to this 3 inch cutter weld itself to the piece screaming stop the friggen machine but of course he can;t hear me over this. by the time I was done the cutter was nearly a 1/2 shorter and the heat generated hardened the piece. got to love button pushers.

 

end of hijack go back to your debate

[Mito@DeeringBanjos]

so what about a programmer that desings the product and tooling. then programs and makes them on manual and cnc mills and lathes, and also does the QC. am i just a programmer, an operator, a machinist? i dont think so. i call myself a machinist.

[smokey_44]

miracle worker ....

 

 

Dave

[Matt @ Trio Tech]

Day saver

Edit:

Over worked & underpaid

[Guest]

Oh come on there 3 states for a button pusher,

 

Start(green) Feed Hold(white) and of the the big ol' strawberry looking one called the OH SH!T button.

 

But with todays equipment, if you realize you have to reach for the OH SH!T button, it's already too late.

[Mjölnir]

quote:

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What is the difference between a toolmaker and machinist?

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The pay scale.

[Guest]

quote:

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The pay scale.

---

Yeah that and about 50 IQ points

 

[Elmo Crow X]

about $18.00 an hour

[within a thou]

machinists don't need spotting presses

 

ya always hear of precision machinists but for some reason precision toolmaker just don't sound right

[Storkman]

quote:

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What is the difference between a toolmaker and machinist?

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I don't wanna be either one when I grow up.

[beej]

quote:

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machinists don't need spotting presses

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It's not that they don't need them it's that they wouldn't think to try it out before shipping it.

[within a thou]

why would we need to try it its made to print

[beej]

[Matt @ Trio Tech]

If everything that was made to print actually fit and worked, then we would all be live like George Jetson. Doesn't he work in a Cog factory? as a Machinist!!!!! DUH DUH DUUUUUHH!!!!

[Bpin]

I'm a card carring tool and die maker....Big deal

now days any kid can go to tech school and get a card but can he make a good part to print with the equiptment on hand ? Call me what you want just pay me...

[within a thou]

Bpin I couldn;t agree more that card don;t mean sh@t school is night and day compared to workin in a shop. I ent to school and ended up dropping in the third year was tied of the 3 hour lectures on how to use a file

[betts]

My my some of you boys are sensitive!

 

There are, in our area, some shops that are trying to do 100% COMPLETE mold designs, then have an operator/machinist build the parts to print and just "assemble" the pieces into a mold. To some degree it works, if you have the right equipment and the design is 100% and all tolerances are done on the prints. But it fails enough times to say it doesn't really work reliably.

 

The problem is economics. The time it currently takes to do a 100% mold design and all the prints with all the tolerances eats up too much of the lead time, and if EVER there is an error in the machining process, the part is scrap unless the ENTIRE design and prints and everything else is changed.

 

If a Moldmaker (Toolmaker) is building the mold, then all parts can be made to work as needed, and save time and (= money), and if there is a slight error in a part, often it can be used because the Moldmaker knows how to change the other fits to compensate for the error.

 

Remember there is ALWAYS a tolerance. The smaller it is, the more expensive the part will be. If there is not a good reason for the tolerance to be seven decimals, then why spend the time/money to hold it?

 

After all that, I have seen excellent machinists who were not good Toolmakers/Moldmakers, and excellent Moldmakers who were ok machinists, but not the best by any means.

 

So if you are a machinist and you have the knowledge and ability to make an entire mold work, and take responsibility for it getting done on time, and fixing designs that aren't 100%, then you should get a job as a moldmaker and make more money.

[betts]

Pin makes a good point that I didn't really finish above when I said "if you have the right equipment".

 

A Toolmaker/Moldmaker will get it done with what ever he has to work with. The better the equipment, the less time it takes (usually).

 

And oh yeah, the just pay me part is classic!

[bellyup]

"MACHINIST'S !!!!!"

 

 

[Allan]

Beej

quote:

---

quote:Machinist makes the part to print, QC checks it sometimes Machinist re-makes/re-works part. Ship it.

Toolmaker takes nice looking QC'd part and makes it work/fit by sometimes butchering that part to make the assembly work.

 

WOW!!! If this represents In-House Solutions way of thinking, then In-House in a very simple minded place to work. It seems an apology might be in order.

 

Work in a tool shop with no toolmakers and you'll be looking for a place whose keys still fit in the door soon.

---

Well you left out:

quote:

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just what I see

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Of course in ontario we have no trade called Toolmaker so I meen no offense to actual "Tool&Die Makers" or "Moldmakers".

 

The opinions expressed by me are mine and not the opinions of In House Solutions, your mileage may vary, professional driver closed course.

[Steve at JPI]

Where I come from (Upstate NY), a "Machinist" is anyone who knows where the "ON" button is on a machine and might be able to operate a saw. "Precision" rarely gets used in the same breath. It even used to be rather an insult if someone called you a machinist and you had actually gone through the 4 year apprenticeship and gotten Toolmaker, Moldmaker or Modelmaker "Papers"(actually a state given certificate which officially makes you a journeyman in any of the above trades). Once you're a journeyman in any of the above, the term "Toolmaker" applies as a general catch-all. That certificate USED TO guarantee a lifelong job and a pretty nice paycheck.

 

Nowadays, it doesn't seem to matter if you have papers or not. Most of the big companies want a two-year degree, apparently to prove that you can sit through two more years of school without falling asleep and flunking out. As far as a big difference in pay, I knew "machinists" that made nearly as much as me (I'm a state certified Modelmaker) and I'm still waiting for the $57,000 a year that the local community college is claiming a person will earn after TWO YEARS in the trade upon graduation from their Machine Tool Technology program. I've been in it for about 20 years now and might make that with an average of 20 hours of overtime a week, but I do have somewhat of a life outside of the job and do NOT work 60 hours.

 

Anyone remember the late 70's/early 80's when we could actually make the same as our friends who went to college and got 4-year degrees??? How exactly DID the Blue/White collar divide become so HUGE???

 

How come nobody wants to compare Toolmakers and machinists to PROGRAMMERS???? LMFA

 

By the way, the above comments are not intended to insult any Machinist, Tool maker, Programmer, etc. Just letting you know how it was when I did my time up in NY.

[chris m]

Is $50K not good $$ in North Carolina? My buddy was down there at Lejeune for a few years and bought a couple of nice, new-construction homes for right around $100K each. Granted that was Jacksonville, which isn't the most fabulous place, but I would assume that a house in a 'better' town wouldn't be double the $$. I don't know about the 'divide' in the South but I know that plenty of [talented and experienced, I will grant you] machinists up here are making more dollars than engineering types. EVERYbody in a manufacturing business should expect, in my mind, to put in 45-50 hours as a rule, so I always factor in that fact when calculating comparative salaries.

 

C

[Ray H.]

You All sound like a bunch of domestic goddesses griping about being a housewife. Just get back to work and earn your living. Since the advent of CNC machining, the trade is worthless. Get real we are all fading faster than the T-Rex.

 

True talent is in the mind.

 

INVENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[toolall1]

agreed bill w

[Gary]

Yea but we ain't still driving a model t either. Only problem with cnc's is owners don't no the work that goes into running/ programming them. You blow up a cutter and its the end of the world. Yes, me just like the bosses can feel and stop cranking the f'ing handle on a bridgeport if the cutter goes to hell. People in unrelated (management) type work have no clue what is involved in making something and maiking it work. Chemist today says yeah those threads you put in that plug look good but are only going in part way "maybe are to tight eah". I say they are pipe plugs see the taper, and he says yeah I think I heard of those. The guy is 50something years old. Sorry that sure turned into a long winded rant.