Question For Former SmartCAM Users

[Fig sign]

Roger .

He goes to the UG forum whinning about UG

Onecnc

Solidworks or whatever else

I know him 7 years - 7 years of whinning ,trolling ,

Nothing productive ,

This attitude sucks

He wants to know from users of every program flaws and drawbacks .

Collects them and uses like his own remarks ,giving impression of everyone he is the user of the program,

Not for long ,though .

He feels himself on Heaven pretending to be god knows whom ,being actually nill .

Being rather nasty ,bad personality ,this draws to the people reaction being sick of him and his threads .

IN EVERY BOARD HE GETS HIS HANDS ON ,

NOW IS OUR TURN.

hIS BAD LANGUAGE ,LACK OF ATTITUDE AND RESPECT FOR OTHERS ARE WELL KNOWN TOO.

He has no sense of humor .

In a couple of words -this guy sux .

To answer him is a waste of time .

And lack of self-respect .

[Roger Peterson]

Iskander

[DC Gorn]

Wow, I do remember SmartCam was good software but when I jumped the already sunk ship in 98 I did so to a stronger software. In the demo anyone could see version 8 MC had it all over SC. There are some feature I miss like the macro family of parts. That was nice

 

A very skilled programmer told me once. Smartcam was designed by engineers for engineers. Mastercam was designed by machinist for machinist. Compairing them was a waste of time.

[PERRY C]

I used smart cam years ago and it was about as aquaward(sp) as trying to type with one hand.

If I remember correctly if you didn't fill out the setup page and create all the tools to begin with and you forgot something you might as well delete it all and start over then you had to selct the tool which was called a step select the geometry with step it was nothing like mastercam. It was kind like gibbs cam to me which I couldn't stand either.

I love mastercam I program anything on the fly and if want to change directions on how I'm going to machine the part I don't have to delete the file and start over.

I rather program with nothing but a note pad and a print as to have to use smartcam

[jon_banquer]

"Are you sure you're not on somebody's CAD/CAM payroll and in here to just stir the pot?"

 

Gibbs of course.

 

"I swear I NEVER hear those words from CAD/CAM end users, only sales and/or marketing people..."

 

Perhaps your "friend" Bottlebob can help you to understand why I create them and like using them.

 

"As for the palleted setup you described, my post processor handles that and WAY more all with programming one single part. The machine heeds to have Custom MACRO B though."

 

If you read the palleted setup "Smarmy Dolt" described a little closer you should come to clearly understand that "Smarmy Dolt" did not want to use a macro. He wanted to do everything graphically.

 

Do you feel that a user should have to resort to creating special posts and also have Fanuc Macro B installed in the CNC control to get real control over the toolpath? Clearly I don't and neither did "Smarmy".

 

Don't get me wrong I think it's wonderful that MasterCAM has such a powerful post language and that MasterCAM exposes much more power in its post language than any other CADCAM system that I know of but I don't think this should be used as an excuse for not having the proper graphical tools to edit the toolpath!

 

I believe your post was the only post to address what "Smarmy" complained about so many years ago on Usenet. Nice job!

 

It is truly amazing to me that SmartCAM is still ahead of just about everyone else when it comes to control over the toolpath after being a non supported CADCAM system for so many years. Since so many MasterCAM users seem so paranoid I thought I would share this link so that anyone objective could see that I'm asking for this in other CADCAM systems and that others feel the same way as I do in regards to haveing Full Graphical Control Over The Toolpath... just had to get that in there once more.

 

http://www.mecsoft.com/cgi/teemz/teemz.cgi...cement_Requests

 

I like your idea about changing a pocket to a profile, etc. Seems like another way to not lock the user into a modal situation or maybe I should say not force the user down a one way street.

 

Do you feel at this point that the CAM aspects of MasterCAM should take priority over the CAD ones? Seems to me they should as it looks like there is still a lot of work to do to make MasterCAM X CAM really stand out.

 

Jon Banquer (Graphical Toolpath Editing ®)

Phoenix, Arizona

[jon_banquer]

"I am not defending Jon, even though he comes off as quite negative. But, he can ask any question he likes, he may get flamed but he can ask."

 

Thank you for posting that I do have the right to raise these questions. Unfortunatly I doubt most will agree with your statement.

 

I guess what I really miss is the kind of progressive discussions I use to have with Mike Rosa of CNC Software on Usenet and at trade shows. Mike Rosa understood a lot of the points I made. While he could not do anything about the areas I felt needed changing I always felt he understood exactly where I was coming from.

 

Jon Banquer (Graphical Toolpath Editing ®)

Phoenix, Arizona

[cadcam]

quote:

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Perhaps your "friend" Bottlebob

---

Thanks Jon I have not gone by and said hi to him in a few years I will try stopping by and say hi to him sense he work 15 min from me.

I don't feel in amy way what you say about Smartcam makes it better and there is more then just the 2d world out there and most shops are driven by cad models these days faster to the machine.

and complex.

 

But I know you live for this stuff.

Hope you had a good X-mass.

[jon_banquer]

"Smartcam was designed by engineers for engineers."

 

From American Machinist December 2006:

 

"In 1983, A CNC Machinist and a salesman at a CNC shop in Eugene, Oreg., who had both been experimenting with using the newly developed personal computers to automate CNC programming, got together and developed a software package called SmartCAM and founded company called Point Control."

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[jon_banquer]

"Perhaps your "friend" Bottlebob"

 

Comment was made for James Meyette but I think its cool that you know Bottlebob. Bob is a pretty awesome human being and he is what holds alt.machines.cnc together.

 

"But I know you live for this stuff."

 

Very true. I've mellowed some over the years. Not much but some. Could be I'm just more confident in what I believe needs to be in a CADCAM system and that I feel time has proven me right... Seamless, unified, hybrid is getting much closer to reality in products like SolidWorks.

 

In any case, James Meyettes post was helpful and gives me a good idea where MasterCAM X is at the moment.

 

Even though I have very strong beliefs in regards to CADCAM I'm not a product loyalist. I live in a job shop world where multiple CADCAM systems are used.

 

Here is something that I hope will make you laugh and is 100% true:

 

The person who first introduced / trained me on a CNC machine is a long time CNC Software employee. He was my teacher when I went to the now defunct Hartech.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[jon_banquer]

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ANY discussion of BobCad hard hitting critisim?"

 

I don't think you're wrong.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

 

[ 12-27-2006, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: jon_banquer ]

[jon_banquer]

"I've never used Gibbs , but I've sat through numerous demos. Every one of them started with "We'll import this model and...." "

 

Too funny.

 

Still, Gibbs has some great ideas:

 

Click on a geometry element and change it from "wall" to "air" so the cutter knows to plunge there and not into material.

 

Machining Markers that can be dragged around the geometry / toolpath to control where the toolpath with start and end.

 

Utility Markers that can be dragged where ever you wish to change the feedrate... from what has been posted I guess you can't change the feedrate on a toolpath in MasterCAM. For some reason I thought you could do this in MasterCAM.

 

Note that Gibbs does all of this with a graphical approach rather than navigating threw dialog boxes.

 

I guess it is obvious at this point that I prefer the graphical approach to editing where ever possible rather than the dialog box approach to editing. I wonder how others feel about using a graphical approach whenever possible?

 

In my experience almost every job shop that I have worked in that has Gibbs does not use Gibbs for geometry creation. I actually like some of the stuff Gibbs does with point based geometry but I do not believe that point based geometry creation should be a users only choice.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Perhaps your "friend" Bottlebob...

---

Who??? Drawing a blank... perhaps someone from the days I used to frequent the NG?

 

quote:

---

...If you read the palleted setup "Smarmy Dolt" described a little closer you should come to clearly understand that "Smarmy Dolt" did not want to use a macro. He wanted to do everything graphically...

---

It CAN be done but I prefer the MACRO method because I can do so much more with less code.

 

quote:

---

...Do you feel that a user should have to resort to creating special posts and also have Fanuc Macro B installed in the CNC control to get real control over the toolpath?...

---

No. I feel they should have Custome MACRO B installed on their machine to take advantage of all the power it's capable of, and since it has it why not use it. Special posts on the other hand... going ot have to say if you do ANY editing whatsoever to your code (not implying you Jon necessarrily) it IS imperative to get some work done on the post so that it is Post and Run, believe me, even small edits add up over time.

 

quote:

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...Since so many MasterCAM users seem so paranoid...

---

You're just jealous that the voices only talk to us.

 

My take on the whole Graphical Toolpath Editing (GTE) is similar to gcodes.... It is an attempt to to mitigate the effects of poorly designed toolpaths (from the CAD/CAM Developer) disguised as "power". It is there in Mastercam, I can honestly say, that I have only ever needed to use it on RARE and do mean RARE occasions where I want something out of the ordinary, or to compensate (usually) for a bad CAD model. But nevertheless it is there and it is quite usable, matter of fact, I've needed cutter comp on a surface toolpath so between using "Direction" for my Ramp On and ramp off and the toolpath editor I was able to successfully acheive it with only a few mouse clicks.

 

quote:

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...Do you feel at this point that the CAM aspects of MasterCAM should take priority over the CAD ones?...

---

Is it not MasterCAM??? But there is room for improvement on the CAD side, would I rather have more CAD or more CAM? More CAM will get my vote almost every time.

 

quote:

---

...from what has been posted I guess you can't change the feedrate on a toolpath in MasterCAM. For some reason I thought you could do this in MasterCAM...

---

Not true... you cannot alter spindle speeds with the GTE, feed and just about any other aspect of the toolpath is a yes. It's just a matter of learning how to use it.

 

Some would say I am a brand loyalist, but that does not mean CNC gets a free pass. My criticism is done the proper way (usually) but every now and then I get a little "edged" and let it rip but if I had to change to something else I would, but Mastercam IS the bar with which I compare all other CAM packages.

 

quote:

---

...I guess it is obvious at this point that I prefer the graphical approach to editing where ever possible rather than the dialog box approach to editing. I wonder how others feel about using a graphical approach whenever possible?...

---

Like I said above, if somethng needs "editing" there's a problem. Fix the problem first then we'll talk.

[kunfuzed]

Who keeps saying you can't change the feedrate of a toolpath? Change at Point lets you adjust everything from feeds to speeds, depth, and cutter comp right in the middle of a multipoint contour.

[Roger Peterson]

kunfuzed, change at point does allow spindle speed change but only works on a contour toolpath, not pocketing, circlemill, surfacing toolpaths, etc... In those cases you need to use the toolpath editor. In either case it is graphical, you select the point where you want to make the change, and make the changes you desire. The reality of is that both of these shouldn't need to be used on anywhere near a regular basis.

 

HTH

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Like I said, if you need to edit it there's something inherently wrong and it needs to be fixed.

 

My experience with SmartCAM is eons ago and it gave me my first taste of Associativity. I'm sure there are probably certain things it may do better than Mastercam but I have to look at the overall net gain of such a feature. I'm sure that every CAM package has a feature or two that it does better than Mastercam. For me, I've not seen a "gotta have it" feature that would make me seriously consider a change, ESPECIALLY from a software package that has not had a major revamp in about 10 years or so (give or take).

[Piglet Trespassers William]

I do not give a damn .

I just work programming parts .

12 hours every day .

I will never reply to his threads .

My friends will never reply too .

Let`s see how much time it will take you all ,fellows , to see what I mean !

[steve f]

Why does anyone waste time arguing with a joker who doesn't use Mcam?

 

It's like listening to a virgin describe how it should be done in bed...a waste of time.

 

...just my humble opinion.

[Guest]

Has anyone noticed that this guy has been a member since 2002 and other than a posting or 2 on the CAD survey thread has asked nor contributed nothing?

 

Is it time perhaps for a SIM# verification upon joining?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I only reply bcause there may be a lurker on the fence and perhaps we can convince him to come over to the Dark Side...

 

C'mon now, he's contributed some flame bait. That's gotta count for something.

[Zoober]

Hey Jonny boy,

I know the Phx market pretty good... What shops have you worked in?

Just tryin to get a feel of your shop experience.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I heard he sweeps floors pretty good, course that was like 7 or 8 years ago in the NG.

 

Once this place got going, I never go there anymore. Less spam in here too.

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

James .

Replying him -

You are risking to become his permanent oppponent

He call them friends .

Than he will call you someting like:

His true language (you can find tons of it ):

You’re a loser and live in fairytale land and don't want to remove your head from your xxxx where it's probably been stuck for many years. ....

you such a freaking ***** and don't have the balls to show your face here and see for yourself....

Than he will be banned (what a relief )

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

No replies Jon??? I KNOW you've looked in here a number of times since I've posted...

 

Did I stump you? You can't give a good reason why you would need a "GTE" on a regular basis unless something's broke or the core toolpaths suck right?

[kunfuzed]

OWNDED!

[Zoober]

:Popcorn: