Question For Former SmartCAM Users

[Bob_Looney]

I won't go into the MC -vs- SC debate. I do and have used Smartcam for 16 years. Many of the "it won't do this" are false but this isn't the place.

 

I joined a machining forum a few weeks ago, first topic I look at, there is Jon B going on about graphical editing of toolpath. he got banned a cpl weeks ago....

I come in here after a few weeks away and what the He{{ do I see??? Jon B going off about graphical toolpath editing. The only difference is he's hammering Mastercam -vs- Smartcam where as before it was OneCNC and no mention of smartcam at all.

 

Let this die, 4 freakin pages of rambling...

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

Bob.

Happy New Year .

And let it be free from trolling !

[jon_banquer]

"I won't go into the MC -vs- SC debate. I do and have used Smartcam for 16 years. Many of the "it won't do this" are false but this isn't the place."

 

The one thing you got right in your post.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[jon_banquer]

"Graphical toolpath editing, if thats what you call it, is cool but has more limitations than expectaions. Labour intensive and 'inefficient', period."

 

1. That's what I call it.

 

2. Are you suggesting that *less grahpical toolpath editing power* in MasterCAM X² vs. SmartCAM is some how acceptable?

 

3. Have you noticed that no one is this thread, including yourself, is able to show how MasterCAM X² can handle the "Smarmy Dolt" challenge posted to Usenet many years ago other than James Meyette who first said he would use Fanuc Macro B on a control that supported it and then stated that it could be done without Fanuc Macro B but failed to show how it could be done in MasterCAM X² without using Fanuc Macro B.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[Hardmill]

What specifically are we trying to accomplish here Jon ??

 

 

PEACE

[gcode]

quote:

---

no one is this thread, including yourself, is able to show how MasterCAM X² can handle the "Smarmy Dolt" challenge

---

possibly because no one gives sh!t about your

Smarmy Dolt challenge... Dolt being the operative word

 

Enjoy your time here.. tomorrow you die

 

[ 01-01-2007, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[heavychevy2155]

Jon, if you don't have anything useful to ad, or have a question about Mastercam. Please leave your opions and Mastercam bashing at door. Mastercam is the software we use because we make money with it, and have fun with it also. MC is the main software used in my neck of the woods, so jobs can be found with MC programming exp. I have looked at other software when I started my own shop. Mastercam was the software that fit right in with my company. No need for training and super fast ROI, the other companies could not even come close. I can see comparing others to Mastercam, but when you have people give you an answer and you don't care for anything they have said, and you keep beating a dead horse it becomes a waist of everyones time. I dont see the need for a GTE, I look at my part and then my material and start my first op programming. If I don't like something, I'll edit that toolpath, repost, hit go button. Most of my work is 2.5D and I am pretty fast at getting clean usable code that makes money, and that makes me

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

Enjoy your time here.. tomorrow you die

---

Morning "G" Happy New Year

 

 

PEACE

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Jon, If I thought for 1 second you were more than a pot stirrer I just might get into exact specifics but frankly, you're not worth the effort. It can be done that's all you need to know. Figuire it out for yourself. Enjoy today on the Forum because lke gcode says, "...tomorrow you die..." in yet another forum you'll get the boot.

 

 

OUT!

[gcode]

Dolt

for our literaly challenged members

[jon_banquer]

"The inability to break the link between CAD geomety and toolpath was the achilles heel of Smartcam, and killed the product once surface modeling and machining emerged. Smartcam was slow to accept the fact that you HAD to evenually de-couple the two."

 

Why do geometry and the toolpath have to be "de-couple"?(ed) What is wrong with the approach of giving geometry a toolpath property as SmartCAM does it? I know of another "modern" product where you can convert back and forth between geometry and toolpath. This product runs inside of Rhino. It's a mold and die CAM product.

 

"Their business policies towards their dealers got really goofy too. To sum it up, they "beat the horses" pretty bad, taking an arrogant and bullying approach to dealers, and blaming dealers when their sales were slow, rather than accepting that their architecture just wasn't keeping up anymore."

 

You were there and I wasn't so I will take your word on this. Were you a SmartCAM VAR at the time or did you observe this as an employee of Point Control?

 

"Some day someone should write a book about Point Control Company. It is a fascinating study in business."

 

Why not you?

 

"I'll always be grateful to Jerry Blakely for giving me a start in this business. I learned a heck of a lot working for Point Control in tech support. I also left a few good friends there who were brilliant programmers (Edwin Wise in particular)."

 

What made Edwin Wise a "brilliant programmer"? Did he actually know how to machine something besides know how create software code for CADCAM programs?

 

In my opinion if more CADCAM software programmers were actually machinists first we would have much better CADCAM products and I doubt I would be debating the need for full graphical editing control over the toolpath.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

 

[ 01-01-2007, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: jon_banquer ]

[gcode]

quote:

---

I doubt I would be debating the need for full graphical editing control over the toolpath.

---

we're not debating it... you are beating us over the head with it

[Hardmill]

Nobody cares about stupidcam, can someone please flush this thread.

 

 

PEACE

[heavychevy2155]

Charles was not bashing in anyway, he was showing great respect for Edwin Wise, something that rarely happens in this cut throat business. Then you cut him down, "WTF" Charles is one of the nicest most helpful guys here and you have no right to disrepect him in anyway. I hope they do ban your sorry a$$. BYE BYE, Like Crazy said "don't let the door hit ya on the way out"

[Thee Rickster ™]

Jon

quote:

---

Are you suggesting that *less grahpical toolpath editing power* in MasterCAM X² vs. SmartCAM is some how acceptable?

---

Acceptable?.. you Moron, this is a Mastercam Forum

for Mastercam users

 

If you would do less cutting and pasting out of

other Forum's, and do more reading and listening,

you won't have to ask the same stupid

questions over and over again.

 

So you can edit an 'inefficient' toolpath

Graphically.

 

Yippie...!

 

I did and was forced to liked it for years,

untill my employer could afford a new software that continually improved. That did not need Graphical editing magical powers.

A couple more softwares after that and now

I use mastercam. Who know's maybe you'll invent

and finance a better one and we'll all switch to

that.

 

If you don,t use Mastercam why are you comparing to it and all the others you bash in 'all' the

Forum's you frequent.

 

Go check out the off-topic thread about you.

After a few posts no one even talks about you

anymore.

 

Don't forget to check out the links, everyone can

now see what your all about.

 

To answer your original question that started

this topic, No.

 

See ya

 

RMS

[jon_banquer]

"Go check out the off-topic thread about you."

 

Not thanks. I'm much more interested in someone showing how MasterCAM X² can Fully Graphically Edit The Toolpath like SmartCAM can... after all it's now been labeled as "StupidCAM" so being able to show how MasterCAM X² can Fully Graphically Edit The Toolpath like SmartCAM could do years ago should be no problem, right?

 

I've posted on alt.machines.cnc for many years. It use to be a great group. I'd like to think alt.machines.cnc is making a come back of sorts now.

 

alt.machines.cnc is a place where employees of CNC Software use to post before this forum was established and I have had several pleasant experiences there discussing how MasterCAM needed to be improved and what was coming in future versions.

 

For me adressing what is apparently a short coming in MasterCAM X² is a lot more interesting than trying to gain the acceptance of a clique of which I have no interest in belonging to. It's also more interesting than engaging in worthless gossip so if you don't mind I'll pass and leave that to you and the others and concentrate on trying to get some answers to the questions I have asked.

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[kunfuzed]

quote:

---

I'm much more interested in someone showing how MasterCAM X² can Fully Graphically Edit The Toolpath like SmartCAM can...

---

Why? Why don't you say "I'm much more interested in someone showing how MasterCAM X² can produce a faster higher quality part than SmartCAM..." Isn't that the entire point of a CAM system? By logic, if this basic feature trully limited MasterCAM, then why are they still in buisness? Mcam ain't cheap, so why does it sell over these lower cost systems that provide this "magical-can't program-without" GTE?

 

My opinion. It doesn't matter how a cam system does it. If it works for you, buy it. If it doesn't, buy a slower out-dated cam system that does. JMHO

 

EDIT: GTE = Not needed. Mcam has been flexible enough and fast enough for me without it ever since I started using it.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Jon...You don't want any answers to any questions. You want an audience. You are a troll and have been for years You have no interest in contributing to this community, or any community for that matter. You have nothing TO contribute to this community. You are not a Mastercam user and can not produce a SIM number. You only want to be here to stir the pot and cause controversy. Contrary to what you have said about wanting a real dialog, You only want to cut and paste BS

Go pester someone else

[crazy^millman]

Listen you fuc?ing idoit. YouR fuc?ing questions have been answed you stupid fuc?. Pull your head out of your smartcam a$$ and get the recent version of Mastercam and use it on your out of date equipment, your out of date software, and your out of date apporach to talking and working with anyone in the industry. You idea of a debate is insults talking donw to people and trying to destroy their way of living.

 

It can do it I have done it and it is not the rocket science problem you keep thinking it is. Pull you head out of your a$$ get a fuc?ing clue and take your smartcam and go have fun using it doing your simply 2d and 3d work. Those of use doing advanced 5 axis and mill/turn work and complex 3d machining will gladly keep kicking smartcam a$$ and making our living doing so. PLease keep trying to show how closed minded and truley ignonart you are.

 

NOT ONCE HAVE YOU ANSWERED OUR QUESTIONS. SIMPLE TO THE POINT QUESTIONS ABOUT THE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE ON EACH OF THE SOFTWARE'S YOU HAVE USED AND EQUIPMENT YOU HAVE USED THEM ON. THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES TO ME AND SHOULD SPEAK VOLUMES TO PEOPLE YOU KEEP POINTING HERE TRYING TO GET THEM TO BUY YOUR SMARTCAM STOCK AND SALES PITCH WHICH YOU THINK IS HELPING YOU GUYS BUILD IT UP. YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE ROAD SO MANY HAVE DONE GOING AFTER THE TOP DOG IN CAD/CAM. PLEASE KEEP ENLIGHTING US WITH YOUR EXTESIVE BULL$HIT AND KEEPING US HUMORED.

[kunfuzed]

quote:

---

Let say we have the letters of the alphabet that we wish to machine. We start by laying toolpath down on the letter "A" and chain until we hit letter "Z".

 

Now here comes the challenge that almost every CADCAM system that I know of fails at or makes it so miserable for the user to edit that you have to start all over again by deleting the chained toolpath that cuts "A" to "Z":

 

The challenge is this: Modify the existing toolpath used to cut "A" to "Z" and now start machining at say the letter "P" to "Z" and then "O" to "A".

---

Just out of curiousity, no sarcasm involved, I'd like to know step by step how you would perform this in SmartCAM. Mostly becuase a previous SmartCAM user above didn't seem all that impressed by the challenge, and said he would end up just rechaining the group anyways.

[crazy^millman]

On the the Alphabet question was answered see you quit beating that Dead horse.

[Bob_Looney]

Jon: I am and have been a continuous Smartcam user for the last 16 years. I think I have a lot more experience with the software than you do.

 

"Graphical editing of the toolpath" is nice when the RARE occasion it is used. Smartcam users don't insert feed change params after every element despite what you think.

 

This is a Mastercam forum for users of Mastercam and fortunatly for me, they allow non users to lurk and ask questions. I appreciate that and have learned a lot.

Don't screw it up for the non Mcam user.

Don't drag SmartCam into your rantings.

 

This is not the place for your diatribe regarding YOUR perceived MasterCam limitations. A neutral forum on the .alt newsgroups is the place for it (if anywhere).

 

Somebody BAN this putz, Please.

[Bob_Looney]

Kunfuzed:

As pointed out earlier, in smartcam you "draw" the toolpath as well as any layer geometry you may want. It is the "beauty" of the software as well as the "curse". The database is internal so manipulation of toolpath geometry is just like manipulating any "layer" geometry. There is no external "nc" file holding the various toolpath parameters for each element, ie: level, feed, speed, end point, start pont, etc.

To resequence the alphabet letters you simply "resequence" by picking the chains in the order you want them cut. That resequences the database.

I suspect Mcam does something along the same lines.

 

I hope that answers you question. You can pm me if you want. I don't want to contribute to JB's mastercam -vs- the world rantings nor am I trying to stir the pot. Just trying to answer your question.

[jon_banquer]

"Just out of curiousity, no sarcasm involved, I'd like to know step by step how you would perform this in SmartCAM."

 

 

Well... a book that shows just how easy this can be done in SmartCAM and takes you step by step thru doing it is:

 

SmartCAM Production Milling and Turning

 

http://www.techedu.com/SmartCAM_Books.asp

 

I have the book and could make you a copy of the example that the book uses showing just how easy and fast it is to Fully Graphically Edit The Toolpath in SmartCAM.

 

I'm sure I could also get a hold of a seat of SmartCAM and install it on my PC and post step by step screen shots for you.

 

You could also check out comp.cad.solidworks where someone has upgraded from SmartCAM to DP Technology Esprit and admits that SmartCAM has no equal right now when it comes to control over the toolpath.

 

I do agree that SmartCAM is dated in many ways but not in the area of Graphical Control Over The Toolpath. I feel the answer is getting the Control that SmartCAM gives you over the toolpath into MasterCAM.

 

Note that both "Smarmy Dolts" example and my example are not about editing bad toolpath to make it good. Both examples are about handling the frequent changes that often occur in a machining job shop in a timely manner.

 

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona

[jon_banquer]

"Graphical editing of the toolpath" is nice when the RARE occasion it is used."

 

"Smarmy Dolts" example posted to Usenet clearly shows that in some shops (like ours) it's not "RARE"... it's pretty common place.

 

Change happens very frequently in some machining job shops. A CADCAM system should always easily allow change whether its James Meyettes example of wanting to change a pocket routine to a contour, my example, or Smarmy Dolts example.

 

Further since so many are focused on SmartCAM rather than Full Graphical Editing Control over the toolpath you might want to check out this thread in the MecSoft forum where I have asked for this feature in RhinoCAM and another RhinoCAM user has agreed with me. I do believe MecSoft is working on this feature right now because many people know how valuable Full Graphical Control over the toolpath is.

 

http://www.mecsoft.com/cgi/teemz/teemz.cgi...cement_Requests

 

Jon Banquer

Phoenix, Arizona