Free Advice

[ducati]

OK folks. I have read alot since joining. I have on my flame protection suit. I am looking for that ole free advice. Background:

Machinist 30 years. OK at 3D drawings with

Autodesk Inventor 11. CNC experience: 2 axis and 3 axis knee type mill experience. Not yet a registered MC user. I am here and posting because you have allowed me to do so. And by the way I do appreciate the privilage. We are looking to move into the CNC pond. We are a large rotating equipment repair facility for a major refining company. We do not and will not have a staff just do CNC programing. We are looking at producing more of our long term delivery parts in our shop rather than being at the mercy of some OEM's. Regular ole pump shafts up to about 4 foot. It would be nice to cut the keyways at the same time. Having the ability to machine and index in the 4 axis would great. Production.. no. short runs of 2 or 3 at the same time of the some shafts, coupling hubs, etc, maybe repeat those runs 3-4 times a year. Considering training 3-4 folks to learn to use the software and the machine. Not sure which type of Machine would be the most flexible to meet those needs. Materials will run from 4140 to 316 SS to 410 SS to Inconel. The software should be of the type we can train some folks and get them up and running in a few weeks. We have no need to make molds. However, the technology is neat and it would be nice to make a few trick parts to show off. A diameter of around 6 inches at 4 foot or less would be about the range we are looking to fill. Also, the machinig center should be capable of convential milling type operation on flat parts such as flanges, adapters, etc. I realize this is very general information and covers a wide range but

I am not sure without specific questions from you just the best way to narrow it down. Now on the the software phase.. again about 4 folks who are already machinist, familar with 3D drawings and the concepts. As folks get promoted (yes some do) then we would train ourselves and pass it along until we reach the point we need some formal classes. We have a 4 year apprenticeship program and I plan to include CNC into its curriculum. We have many older manual machines that we plan to upgrade on a 5 year plan to "teach" type lathes and mills. We have some very large vertical and horizonal mills that will remaing manual. We like the results from our knee type mill. Conversational programing, flexible and user friendly. Now we need to take the next step to full CNC. The software is very important in that it a regular ole Joe with some excellent machinist skills and desire can learn will be asked to program and produce parts. I do realize this is the MasterCam forum. However, that being said and after reading many posts I have come to the conclusion the experience here is not limited to MC nor any particular brand/type of machines. Folks share their knowledge and experience without reserve. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. I will try to narrow down any of the gaps I have not covered.

Thanks for taking the time.

I am ready to duck

[Hardmill]

Advise is always free, just dont ask for a post

 

Theres lots of machines you could look at what kind of

range are you looking at.

What kind of tolerances are you going to want to hold.

Lot of research when your just starting out. You came to

the right place though

 

 

PEACE

[ducati]

Hardmill,

We will be machining shaftsthe most in a diameter range of 4-6 inches 48-54 inches long.

Tolerance .0005 on bearing fits about 2-3 inches long. .001 tolerance on impeller, coupling fits

6 inches long. Most of the time the middle of the shaft is just along for the ride to hold the ends together.

We would like to use the same machine to make wear rings for the impellers and case wear rings.

4-18 inches diameter with wall thickness of 12 inch .. up to 6 inches long, material bronze to inconel. tolerance + or - .001 on OD and + or - .005 on the ID.

Coupling hubs up to 10 inch OD, 6 inch bore. tolerance .001 Id, OD .002, and right now we broach the keyways up to 1 " wide.

[BernieT]

ducati, where are you located??

[ducati]

Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA

[Guest]

No reason for the flame suit ducati. What you have asked is well within what's discussed around here most time anyway.

 

When it comes to Gibbs I think you'll find it handles 2D stuff "ok" You will need something else to do any real model modification. It is not real customizable, posts are a specific weakness. There are limitations in how you can approach cutting and available options. Personally, I am not an Inventor fan, Autocad was cool in its time.

 

Solidworks is CAD software I now use everyday and I love it. Ability, ease of use, power, cost, great over all product.

 

For a machine I would suggest you give a serious look to Okuma's. Again, ability, power, rigidity, cost, a good overall choice.

[RObert TImby]

Where at in Baton Rouge LA are located?

[BernieT]

"Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA"

 

Thx, how did you fare with Katrina?

[ducati]

Very fortunate. Lost power 2 days. Minor wind damage on trees. House fine. Compared to most of the rest of the folks we were blessed.

[ducati]

Robert T.

25 miles East.

Walker

[Lloyd]

Ducati,

 

I would second John's nomination for the Okuma. I run a Crown L1420. Its getting along in years now, but it will still hold bearing fits all day with no problems, as long as no one throws open the big loading bay doors when it is 20 below outside:).

 

We do similar size and material work to what you describe and the Okuma has been really good at handling the big stuff, it is a very solid machine.

 

They also use IGF, a conversational programming language on the control that is quite versitile and powerful and should easily be able to handle what you are doing right now.

 

As I mentioned ours is a little old already and I have noticed that some people find this control more of a challenge to learn, but once you have it down it runs circles around cheaper (cough..Haas..cough) machines.

 

Hope that helps.

[ducati]

Lloyd,

What current model Okuma would compare to your Crown L1420? I would like to do some research online to view the options and capacity of this type.

[gcode]

You mentioned that you frequently cut keyways in these shafts.

A mill/turn center cost quite a bit more than a

2 axis lathe of similar size, but you'd be able

to turn your bearing journals and mill keys

in one setup.

The intial costs would be higher, but you'd

get it back with quicker thoughput, better parts

and reduced setup time.

I used to program a big Mori Y axis mill turn

and it was perfect for building shafts.

[Kyle Waters]

Ducati,

For the size of work you are looking at, either an NL series machine from Mori or an LB series from Okuma would serve you well. If all that you are going to do is simple turning with some keys/slots here and there, IGF or CAPS are pretty safe, but they aren't going to allow you the flexibility of the future or be able to be used economically for anything else machinery wise. Not to mention no matter which company or brand you choose, the support as far as the conversational software won't hold a candle to Mastercams, and you can get answers here for pretty much anything shop related, almost around the clock. I don't think they have a forum, and if they do, there's NO WAY you could get the level of help with Mastercam users' range of experience and know how. JM2C

[New Job]

In the Navy we did exactly the kind of work you describe on a Mori Seiki (SL2 I believe) and it worked great. I would have loved to have a live turret though, a 6" X 48" shaft sucks to have to move a round to get it to the next op IMNSHO. Being able to do this in one set up could shave considerable time off of your processing time I think.

 

HTH

[ducati]

Slave and all the rest.

You are starting to narrow my choices .. which I needed. Since I have a CAD.. what are the disadvantages of going just the CAM route. Such as ESPRIT or EdgeCam? The more I look at MasterCam the more I like it. Plus I could hang around here and bug all you folks. Explain the advantages of MC vs CAM add ons. This will enable me to justify my choice to my upper management folks.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

With your interest in long term training mastercam's certification program is worth looking into.

http://www.mastercam.com/TeachersStudents/...on/Default.aspx

[RObert TImby]

Ducati,

 

My parents and Family live in Watson. They own some land there, I left when I tried a year at LSU dropped out then joined the Marine Corp. and left.

[ducati]

Robert

That must be a real culture shock.. from back the woods Watson to Sunny Cali.

[Reverend Turk]

Ducati,

 

I don't find ESPRIT to be as well rounded as MC is. I have used it in the past and it seems great for simple parts but as you get into the more complicated designs it seems to want to hang up quite a bit. I haven't used EdgeCam in about two years so I am not sure what sort of updates they have to their software so I will refrain from commenting on that. As far as MC goes..I rarely use it as a CAD, I use it mostly for the CAM side. I have never used a program with as many available resources as MC has available to all it's users. When we first bought MC i was a little angry becasue I was used to using EdgeCam and that is what I wanted.

 

Since receiving MC I have tried to log in as much seat time as possible considering I am a programmer and a machinist. I get to do it all from start to finish here. My reseller has been great with helping me out when I get into tight jams and I can't seem to figure out how to accomplish something. Plus, I could not have made it without everyone on this board. There are some very knowledgeable people here and if they can't help then it probably isn't possible!!!

 

I am now a MC user for life and I would recommend it to all companies looking to expand. The training, in house or elsewhere, is top notch and there are many books available to purchase to have on hand for reference at a later date.

 

I hope I helped you out in some small way.

Good luck and welcome to the boards!

[RObert TImby]

Ducati,

 

I still go back around deer season and get a buck or two. This year I could not make it, because the whole family are going to Talladega in April. So I've to wait until then.

 

Rob

[dan m]

+1 gcode

[Kyle Waters]

Ducati,

We do not have a CAD system here. Our design/engineering department uses Inventor, but we only get files from them occassionally. All of our standard work I have(and still am)done completely in Mastercam. I have never used any CAD system so I couldn't give an opinion about add ons. This shop has used Mastercam since version 3, and myself since Version 9. About 4 years ago we bought a Mori MT2000 with all the options. Gibbs, and Espirit both came in and did demos, and everything looked preety, we had ooos and ahhhs, but when it came time for part/geometry/toolpath creation, our choice was to stay with Mastercam. I do know that between CNC, In-House and users on this forum, I haven't ran into a problem yet that couldn't be conquered. And it has always been very quick. I don't think I could ever use another CAM software based on that alone. HTH

[Kyle Waters]

Oh I forgot to say, I am in the process of creating all the models for our standard work. I only get 2d paper drawings from Japan to work from. Working with solids in Mastercam seems fine to me, but I do have a limited view.

[ducati]

Slave,

Thanks for the feed back. Next week MC is suppose to come by and the EdgeCam. GibbsCam sent a quote but didnt offer to travel to do the demo. I have a simple model that I will ask both dealers to show ME how to program on their

laptop and then we will go run the program. I am curious to see how easy it is in each program to identify the model. Gibbs forum.. well not much there .

EdgeCam.. couldnt find one without being a user alread.. MC...well you covered excellent help