The use of .STL files

[Michael Sullivan]

The most valuable Mastercam enhancement ever IMHO has been the use of .stl files for verify purposes. Previous to this , It seemed that I was cutting blind to some degree with respect to real life stock on parts with multiple setups.

I know a few of you also take advantage of this but how many others out there utilize the feature?

 

As covered before,The only problem I have with it

as you move your stock through the operations the .stl file gets bigger and bigger. Eventually it gets very difficult(and slow) for Mastercam to deal with the files.

There are .stl editors out there (Magics RP $8,000 an 3Data Expert $1500) that allow you to use triangle reduction to remove excess info and shrink the files considerably (as much as 75%) This cuts processing time considerably. The problem is.... they are targeted for the rapid prototyping market and are extremely cost prohibitive with much more functions than is needed for our little corner of the software market.

Any thoughts or solutions?

I guess I was just wondering how many others would benefit from either an enhancement from CNC or a software targeted at our market from one of the companies that already has the technology. I just want to see how much need there is out there.

[88Matt]

I use it all the time here.

[Mike-T]

yup. All the time.

[Michael Sullivan]

do you guys have trouble with the LARGE stl files?

I Have a relatively good system and it really struggles when I get to the 4th or 5th setup. I have one that is 7 setups that was a bear until I got a trial version of Magics RP. When that runs out..... I'm screwed.

Most parts don't have that many setups but, when you need it you need it.

[crazy^millman]

Well I make solids of the solid stock even if it is forging and use it through out all the operations. I have one forging that had 10 operations on it and the solid was transformed and use through all of them. A lot of people see this as a waste of time, however when I am doing my set-up sheets I need my solids to use Solid Layout. So it saves me tons of time there by doing them as I go along and then I have them for my verify since you can use a solid to verify with.

 

Ernie at Verisurf has something coming out that may make your life easier. With regards to using STL's, but he will have to let you know about that.

 

HTH

[Michael Sullivan]

I don't have the solids module or else I would try it your way because the stl's can be a whole lotta headache. I use Inventor for all of my modeling of parts and assemblies and drawing packages so I couldn't justify another solid modeling package.

I completely understand where your coming from and also don't feel it's a waste of time to be thorough. I am luckily in a place where they see the value of doing the job once.

I would be very much interested in what Verisurf is working on if you could get me in the loop. I would have no problem beta testing either.

thanks for the input

 

-Mike

[iowajim62]

Mike,

Could you import your STL to Inventor and create surface models/Iges/Step to export back out to MC for continued verify ops ?

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

When doing parts that require multiple operations, I create a new WCS for each operation and verify with the true solid option. This way I never have to x-form my STL file. I really like the way MCX allows you to display you stock as a transparent solid. This way you can select the STL from your previous operation, display the stock as a transparent solid, and then have it overlap your model in the graphics area. The stock can be turned on or off with a flip of the switch from the stock setup page in the operations manager. This gives me a good visual of whats going on and lets me know if I have to change my stock view on the stock set up page to match my new WCS for verification purposes.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Michael,

 

I agree with you that an STL editing utility with less rapid prototyping functionality would be awesome. We had such a problem with STL files that we bought a copy of Magics RP. Expensive? Yes, and worth every penny.

 

If there was a more cost effective solution I would love to see it. I think an add-in to Mastercam in the $500-1000 range would sell like hot cakes. It would be even nicer if CNC Software had it's own STL manipulation utility, but I'm not sure what kind of priority it is.

[Michael Sullivan]

Jim, Inventor does not seem to support STL files

 

I found a program that just might fit the bill. It's called VIScam Mesh

For anyone who wants to check it out:

 

http://www.marcam.de/Eng/default.htm

 

I have not installed it yet but it appears to have all the features I need + and the price tag is just under $1000.

I think I can sell that for the 2008 budget

[iowajim62]

Mike,

Haven't used Inventor since 2003.

Here is some discussion regarding importing STL files into Inventor. Something that is called Alias Studio can bring in STL files and once they come in as polygons there are opportunities to fit surfaces and then bring that from Studio to Inventor.

I went online and found this instruction for exporting STL files from Inventor.

 

Inventor

Save Copy As

Select STL

Choose Options > Set to High

Enter File Name

Save

 

obviously you need Alias Studio to do this

[bmilford]

I have the same problems with .STL files becoming very large with multiple verifies.

Is there something "wrong" with the way verify creates and saves .STL files that you would have to use an editor to reduce the number of triangles in the .STL?

When you use an editor to reduce the number of triangles does it affect the accuracy of the .STL for use in compare to .STL?

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Colin Gilchrist]

There is nothing "wrong" with the method used to create these files. Take an example of a pocket floor. As you make passes in verify, each pass that removes material creates seperate sets of triangles. Thats just what happens. So you might have a 4" x 8" pocket, but have thousands of triangles on the floor due to the amount of passes you are making. By running the STL through a triangle reduction, you can often eliminate these redundant swaths of triangles. Does it affect accuracy? There is a tolerance associated with the reduction, so if you used a .0001 tolerance, you wouldn't sacrifice much accuracy, but you wouldn't get that much reduction either, except on planar sets of triangles. One of the limitations of the STL format is that there are no curved shapes. So when you are surface machining with a ball endmill, you are creating thousands of triangles to represent a curved shape.

[Michael Sullivan]

Thanks Jim, I will look into Alias Studio.

[bmilford]

Thanks Colin, I understand now.

 

Brian

[domas]

Michael,

To reduce stl triangle count you could try Rhino.4 software.

Trial version you could download from www.rhino3d.com.

I don't know is it work with Inventor, with Solid works it does.

Other thing, Mastercam can read directly Rhino files.

 

Domas

[mcpgmr]

Wow! I had no idea that the .stl's grew as you went along. I use a strict method of using WCS and verifying every op using .stl as I go and save each operation as a seperate .stl as I go. I never move the .stl so I never get the watertight error anymore.

[Verisurf - Ernie Husted]

Michael,

 

Here is the install program that has the free STL reader, located in the Mastercam File Open menu.

 

Verisurf_X2mr2.exe

 

I'm looking for more ideas and beta testers.

 

Thanks

Ernie

[Michael Sullivan]

Thanks Ernie,

 

I'll give it a try. I'm always willing to beta test if I can be of help.

 

-Mike

[Salt4cad]

Mike... What does Verisurf excatually do. just make the file smaller or?

[Michael Sullivan]

Verisurf, I'm not sure yet. I just installed it but the other programs I've discussed in this thread(MagicsRP,3Data expert and Viscam)read fix/modify and yes reduce the size of the .stl files by reduction of redundant triangles and controlling the accuracy of the .stl(at a reasonable tolerance like .001-.005) you can reduce the size of the file by as much as 75% making it much quicker for MasterCam to process.

[Michael Sullivan]

I’ve done a bit of playing around with Verisurf this past week and I’m really excited about how it’s going to help me out. I think it’s awesome that it works inside the Mastercam interface. The x-form feature works great!

 

Finally, an stl file editor that’s tailored to our corner of the market, CNC Verification. I think

this has the potential to be a must have for all Mastercammers.

 

With this utility, all your stl editing is done within the Mastercam interface and your stl model is in the grapics view along with your model. Verisurf offers you different shading and color options for your stl too. (much better than the translucent stl in the stock setup IMHO). It has it's own tab in the Ops manager for STL data. an Stl filtering function has been added too!

 

If you work with stl files, you gotta check it out!

[cobra95kev]

Do you have to have verisurf for this to work properly?

 

 

If so approx how much is it?

 

Thanks,

[crazy^millman]

No it is a free option for the STL. Other things it can do are not free.

 

HTH

[ToolMan184]

quote:

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I use a strict method of using WCS and verifying every op using .stl as I go and save each operation as a seperate .stl as I go

---

May I ask why you do this? I use WCS as well, then I highlight all my ops make sure the view is correct for each op and verify the whole part without saving any stl files. I am just curious as to why you would save stl files for each op?