Hiring questions

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I'm in the middle of planning a move to a new building. 9200 sq ft. We're buying an 500mm horiz and a y axis turning center. I am more than likely going to get a very large contract to manufacture a system for the National Science Foundation. I am going to need a Manufacturing Engineer, a competant 4 axis horiz and live tool turning programmer, A quality manager and buy a CMM.

The machine trades are booming here in Seattle. I realize I am going to have to pay well. I have no issue with that. We already pay well. But my queation is where am I to find these people at? I have way too much on my plate to do this myself. Who does this sort of thing? Are there headhunter co's out there that actually HAVE qualified people?

[Kevangel]

I have seen out of state want ads in Dayton paper. Ohio has lost 235,000 manufacturing jobs in the last few years, so there must be some enginneers looking for work. Shops are fairly busy. There are some "big" shops back here and Chicago might be another area to look.

[High Sierra Plastics]

I think thats going to be tough. Imagine relocating someone from out of the area. Finding out after a couple weeks it's not gonna work out and having to let him go.

 

Henri

[mowens]

There are lot's of headhunters out there; go to www.cjhunter.com and you can get an extensive list.

[Todd Tracey from Fastech]

Hey Kevin,

We have several companies here in Ohio looking. Solon, and Ashland areas specifically.

[YoDoug®]

Jim, My wife and I plan to move to the northwest in a 2-4 years. She has 2 years left of school then we can move. We would consider moving sooner for the right opportunity. I am curious, When you say you realize you will have to pay well, what is the salary range? If you don't want to post on the forum you can email me.

 

Thanks

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Doug

The person I need is going to manage my programming dept. I know that sounds a little silly now because "I" am the programming dept. But we're growing fairly quickly. We have doubled out gross every year or better for the past three years. I just got a verbal OK on a, for me, huge contract. It's about $2m of work that will run for about 10 months. It will pay for my new horizontal and my new Y axis mil turn. I've talked to a couple of guys here in Emails about salary for a programmer. I think it will be in the $100k range.

That person will need to handle all the programming for my 7 machines, plan tool and fixture requirements, be able to work with my machine tool guys to integrate a pallet pool in a year or so. Be able to understand and impliment the computer software (most likely Predator) to deliver programs to the machines and execute the machine schedule when we go lights out.

I think that is going to involve a manufacturing engineer and another programmer. It's a huge job for one person, but for now it's what I have to do. We are sending some people to school to learn MC and that will help, but that's what I need done. I haven't really sat down and thought through exactly what the entire job discription will be, but that is a lot of it.

We did I think about $900k last year. We are going to do better than double that this year.

We need to look at ways to get more efficient. But that's everybodys job.

So, Salary isn't set in stone, But that's a ballpark figure.

[DavidB]

quote:

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I think it will be in the $100k range

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I'm coming over

[Thee Dragracer1951]

If you come David, Don't forget to bring beer....

[Mick]

Hmm... I manage a programming department (five seats of Mastercam plus three seats of Vericut), and administer our Cimco DNC network (32 machines), and we have just commissioned our 12 pallet pool/twin horizontal set up. Plus three big millturns...

 

I'm your man... when do I start?

[Thee Dragracer1951]

So, I have no idea what this persons salary should be. I have been talking to a couple of guys local to me that sugested that number.

What do you guys thing?

In Seattle the median price for a house is I think about $650k

Over here across the water I think it's about $400k. But we got way less traffic and crap to deal with.

I would look at this as a big job for some one.

I have not researched what someone in this position ought to make. I heard this number as a ballpark. I got no problem with that. This person will make me a lot of money. They need to be paid well. You can't FIND a good programmer.

So, Whaddya think?

[SydwazShawn]

There is only one thing to do!! Steel them from another company.. LoL!!!

 

But seriously 100k salary is too much for a small shop like yours. I don’t think it’s too much if they can do all those things, but right of the bat handing out a salary like that you may shoot yourself in the foot. What I would do is keep the salary at a level that when you’re slow the overhead won’t kill you. But when it’s going like gang busters offer a percentage of profit sharing to your people.

 

Give a guy 80k to start, then if he performs well bonus him the other 20k if you want. That way it gives him incentive plus when you’re doing well you all benefit. Let say you make 2mil in sales that year, and let’s just say you do a 30% profit, give him a bonus of 3-5% percent profit sharing which is about 18k to 30k. If he does really well give him more if you want. The last thing you need is to be paying a guy more than your taking in when you’re slow. But when you’re busy you compensate him very well. I think this keeps everyone on the same boat so to speak and makes a great relationship from a relativley young booming company when you all share the hard times and the good times.

[crazy^millman]

Shawn I will have to disagree. Someone who has worked to the point to have the qualifications has deserved what ever salary they have earned or should be paid. The position he is talking about is probably a 55 to 65 an hour a week position maybe more. Probably weekends and coming in the middle of the night. If you want to get off on a bad foot with someone offer them a lot less than they are worth. A Doctor is worth a lot of money and the reason for that is they mike life and death decisions. A good Manager who is the right fit that can take a company from $2 million in sales to $20 million in sales. I think someone who has these capabilities is the same as a Doctor with the regards they have perfected their craft to the point where they are the life or death of a company. The Manager that would take care of this position has perfected their craft, the level of experience and understanding separates them from the rest of people even thinking they can or could do a job of this nature. No sure just ask the person who is posting up the position. He has my utmost respect.

 

I will give an example of doing something an Ok way and doing it a different way. We had some parts here that were being done in 10 operations I have swtiched it 2 operations. Does not seem like a big deal right well we do 7 different dash number of this same part. We also do these 3 times a year. It was taking an average of 4 hours a set-up. That works out to 280 hours in set-up time. In one year before I got there we had 840 hours in set-up time. At out shop rate that works out to $75,600 in set-up time. Now it cost us $21,600 by changing to the new way. Now you throw a pallet pool in there and you cut that to 30 min setup for each part and now that cost became $1350 on those parts a year. (O/T) Now if you take 20 to 50 parts and use this same concept you start to see the reason I feel pallets pool machines are the only way to go. Just simple math yet some many people see the 1 or 2 or 4 million dollar price tag and say we can not afford it. (Back on Topic) Now you take unattended time that this Manager adds to the equation and do you think trying to get a maybe can do it person or can do it person should be approached here.

 

If I were looking and not very very happy where I am and you were in So Cal it would be an honor to work for someone who to me truly understands what it takes to run a business the way it should be run.

 

Good luck in your search and I will say a good range.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Thanks Ron. You understand exactly who I'm looking for.

I have been around machine shops for a lot of years but I learned a LONG time ago that I don't know everything. I know enough to bounce ideas off of each others foreheads. This person is going to have a HUGE job. I know that cause I'm doing it now. It's just getting bigger.

I really think this is a two person job. Possibly a pair of Mfg Eng's. I need to produce 120 ship sets of 63 component parts each inside of nine months. There will be schedule issues with programming and spindles, and material procurement, and....

I'm not looking for a person that want's to know how I do it, I want a person that has the know how to find the best way to do it.

We want to start the ISO process in two years. We want to do this right.

I've talked to a couple of headhunter shops and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

So, I'm still curious as to how to refine my search for this person.

[mgsanchez]

I agree with Crazy Millman on this one. One additional comment, with the lower salary, you may attract someone who is climbing up the ladder and not quite fully experienced. I am not say that is a bad thing, but not all companies can afford to "hold their hand" while they get that experience.

[SydwazShawn]

Crazy I think you misunderstood me. I agree with what you’re saying for the most part, but he isn’t bringing in 2mil to 20mil at the moment. I think 100k is NOT enough for a job like that, but all I was stating was don’t do it all in a salary. Over here we have profit sharing every month if there’s profit, and everyone is on a different percentage of that profit compared to there skills. When it’s banging the highest experienced people get paid VERY well, but when it’s slow you still get a reasonable salary. I myself thinks this method works very well if it’s set up correctly. You could have a contract if you wanted for what percent of profit you get. Now if that guy was setting this company up so it starts bringing in 20mil than by all means bump his salary up, but for a shop making 900k to 3mil I would play it a little safe if I was the owner UNLESS you had a contract for the work. This doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t give out 100k plus, but do it in profit sharing.

 

I will give you an example of why this might be a better way or maybe not. LoL!! If I was an owner and all my money was from profits that the shop made, and I am buying a big dollar machine with all the tools to set it up, it may be kind of tight for a while. I would then bring someone in to get it all set up, and when that guy starts to make it all work, and the money starts poring in then re evaluate his bonus or salary. Now if I myself was the guy coming in and I new I was worth over 100k, and he offered me a smaller salary with a potentially big bonus I would be ok with that. The last thing I would want is the pressure of my boss trying to pay me a huge salary when the business is struggling. I would look at as that if I believed in this company than I would give the owner the respect to pay me when I have showed him my skills, and the owner would respect me because I believed in him and it just wasn’t about the money. I think it would make a great partner ship in the long run.

 

Not trying to argue with you Crazy, just giving a different side of thinking that’s all..

Dragracer If you are willing to give out a salary like that, then like Crazy has stated I respect you for it. No matter what you end up doing good luck and I think who ever you get will be a lucky man to be able to grow with a relatively small company like your.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I have talked briefly with a couple of members of this site. They both, independantly suggested that number.

I have little time for hand holding.

[SydwazShawn]

Dragracer Sounds like your a man that nows what you want!! I agree that number is good. As far as the ISO thing goes, that is a long process, but it has helped are shop tremendously!

[Thee Dragracer1951]

It's like I said Shawn

I have seen the light. I have drunk the koolaid

I stand among the converted. We are going to go to lights out machining with horizontal machines and pallet pools. Same thing with multi axis mill turns machines. It is the future.

[mgsanchez]

quote:

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As far as the ISO thing goes

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One place that I was at, they hired a consultant to help us with our ISO registration. We were able to fast track and complete our registration in six months. The same consultant helped with our QC-1 registration, (QC-1 allowed us to manufacture product for Sandia National Laboratories).

[gcode]

quote:

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If you are willing to give out a salary like that,

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$100k is not a whole lot of money nowdays.

Quite a few forum memebers do that and better just programming with no management/supervison stuff at all in their job description.

It is a whole lot of money for a small shop looking to step up to the big leauge though.

Finding the right guy will be crucial.

Ron is right about one thing.. for the first couple of years it will be a 24/7 kind of job.

The right guy will have to be willing to make that comitment and healthy enough to keep it.

[Thee Dragracer1951]

We already have a consultant that we are working on the very thing with.

Good stuff...

[Jaz]

Headhunter firms do not have the expertise to find you what you want, if they even have a clue what it is you need. Your best bet will be to 'put the word out' just like you just did. In this case word-of-mouth and networking is your best friend. 100k might be enough, might not be, depends who he's coming from. Definitely look into stealing someone that you KNOW can do the job, but he'll be more money. Getting someone to relocate to the Seattle area might be difficult, I know you'd have to guarrentee me a whole lot more than 100k to get me to consider it (Not that I could do the job, I'm just a programmer but well paid) because the cost of living in Seattle area is about double. Profit share or ownership is a very effective way to interest and keep the very best people.

[SydwazShawn]

Dragracer what HMC did you end up going with if you dont mind me asking?

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I'm buying a Daewoo HP5100. 120 tools, 14k spindle, coolant and air thru, Big Plus, tool management, laset tool setter, spindle probe, 18i control with lots of options turned on, AI nano, macros, lots of stuff.