Why is Mazak better than Haas?

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I thinkit really depend on where you are located for how happy you will be with Haas. I have a mini I am quite happy with. My lathe breaks so often it is not funny. It will not hold a thou over time so there is little point in barfeeding. Which don't work so well anyway.

I'm not hating on Haas. I own two of them. Mine are paid for also, so that little dig don't hold much water...

Service is abysmal here. I have NEVER had the service dept at the factory even return a call.

My HFO is notorious for poor service. I made a bad choice buying one. Granted my machine is a lemon. But the mark of a great company is how they deal with the problems. Haas has chosen to completely ignore my problems. I have chosen to never deal with them again.

Will one make you money?

Sure it will. If you can keep it running.

Are there machines out there that offer a better ROI? You better believe there are!!!

 

Oh yea...My SL10...

It's 60 days are up. It just crapped the hydraulic pump.

And the three month old X axis servo is gettin noisy. Again...

[Guest]

It's always nice to see people are thinking of me when they make their comments

 

[RandyN]

lol, well, I will say you have made an impression on me John, its not all good, but its not all bad either..

 

Out until I have to defend the little guy again

[somename75]

Sorry im late getting back.... Anyway Billystein It has been my experience that when looking at smaller machines around 40 x 20 the nexus line will smack the living crap out of haas and fadal all day long, and their price point is roughly 10% higher. That is where I see the real value, i would rather spend an additional 10k for a mazak compared to a haas. But as a disclaimer you might have to beat up the Mazak salesman to get his price that close to a haas. JMHO

[medaq]

I dont buy into the buy the cheap machine to get it on the floor. We have 2 mazaks here a qt and a multiplex. What people do not put into their equation instead of base sticker price. Is how much is it going to cost you when your machine breaks down when you need that part done today? How much does a day of downtime cost? Add it up the price difference will get caught up really quick.

 

Why is it haas have a service fleet of vans out there? yet none of the japanese machine companys do?

 

our qt 250 is 11 years old, and has had one break down.

 

My enshu is 11 years old and has had 2 break down. One break down was a 4 cent oring from the coupling for the spindle coolant.

 

Both still hold .0001's And these have been running near 24 hours a day, with no maintenance

 

Tell me how much it would of cost to keep a haas up during this same period. I bet in the end the haas costs more.

 

Oh and they are on the original spindles to.

[mgsanchez]

quote:

---

Anyway, I am buying a Haas myself shortly, only because I am starting and a machine with an equivalent envelope to a GR-712 with extended Z is four times the price.

---

If you did the ROI as suggested by Dragracer1951, you might find out that in may be more benificial to buy the more expensive machine. Just a thought.

 

,

[Bruce Caulley]

It would definately be a better ROI. IF I knew exactly the work mix and volume ahead of time, and I had the money for the deposit!. That was my point with it being a startup machine, it gives you an initial capability that you can let customers know you have. If it takes off and orders flow in, then I get the calculator out and find if the ROI and cost per part and stump up the cash for the better machine. If no-one is interested, then I scrape along and (hopefully) cover the lease on the machine to justify the floorspace. Something I couldn't do if I had paid nearly a mil up front!!

 

These discussions always end up a Hass-bash and I think the reason is NOT that the machines are junk. Deep down my "problem" is that companies see them as a long term proposition and people who have used Japanese machines to their FULL potential (as opposed to just a straight swap) KNOW that once a company has an established cash flow that the calculator should come out and some figures done. Of course a company with all Haas will make money, but an all Haas workshop with a positive cash flow could probably, depending on how good they are with their methods already, either double their production with similar machines, or else trim the dead wood, get lean, and make the same $$ with less staff and overheads.

 

My other machines are cheapies too, but they all have fanuc drives, controls, and motors, so I am a bit more comfortable with them. They will still wear out in a few years if I work them hard, but I shouldn't have to worry about electronics too much.

 

Bruce

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

Daewoo is a good compromise to

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Indeed it is...

[mgsanchez]

quote:

---

IF I knew exactly the work mix and volume ahead of time, and I had the money for the deposit!.

---

Good response. It does sound like you know what work you are looking for based on the type of machine you picked. You could still do it. You will just have to work a little harder in the beginning. Knowing that you have a payment due is a great motivator to bring more work in. Having a better machine means that you can process more work in a shorter time frame and make more money to pay for the machine.

 

Then there is the problem of the down payment. Do what ever you can to get it, beg, borrow, steal, hock everything you have. In the long run you will be happy that you did!

 

 

,

[BadBrad]

There is on thing I will say about HAAS and that is they are the best documented machines in the industry. The docs for the Mazaks, Mori Sieki's, and most of the others are poorly written. The Fanuc books are not bad but they don't have very many, if any NC code examples. I had to do a lot of reading and testing to get a tood post for a SHODA gantry router with a Fanuc controller. Nice machine but poorly documented.

 

Brad

[Guest SAIPEM]

Mazak quality is NOT what it used to be.

Their Nexus machines are of the same quality as Haas.

 

That said, you will always have better luck getting service on a Haas.

Good luck getting service from Mazak in a timely fashion.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

[ReDEyZZ]

quote:

---

Their Nexus machines are of the same quality as Haas.

---

 

 

[MACHINEMASTERG]

he must mean ALMOST as good

[Guest SAIPEM]

Jarrett,

 

Mazak Nexus Machines are built in Kentucky.

I saw the entire line when I was there getting my Integrex Training.

 

Mazak is marketing Nexus using the Mazak name and previous quality to bring potential customers in.

They are made with the same kind of design intent that Haas uses.

The Nexus line directly compete with Haas and Fadal.

That was the whole point of the line.

Mazak will tell you that themselves.

 

If you think a Mazak Nexus is better than a Haas then you'll believe anything and you obviously know nothing about the machines.

 

Give me the Haas any day.

[ReDEyZZ]

quote:

---

If you think a Mazak Nexus is better than a Haas then you'll believe anything and you obviously know nothing about the machines

---

We have 4 mazak mills(2 of them nexus)

 

I used to program and set-up haas.

 

The haas isn't as rigid, or accurate, not even close!

 

You must machine plastic and aluminum only. Try a piece of inconel in your haas see how rigid it is.

 

 

quote:

---

The Nexus line directly compete with Haas and Fadal.

---

that's why they are double the price?

[Guest SAIPEM]

Like I said, you know nothing about the machines.

 

Try asking the dealers how many Nexus machines get taken back because they don't meet the published spec.

 

I can always get a Haas service tech the same day I call.

It's a LONG wait for a Mazak tech when you need one.

 

Keep cutting Inconel on a Nexus and you'll find out how long a wait that is.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...The Fanuc books are not bad but they don't have very many, if any NC code examples...

---

Because each machine tool builder does things differently.

[Hardmill]

I bet the Fadals we have here suck worse than

both those machines

 

 

PEACE

[1 master]

hey saipem where is your service area? im considering buying a mazak and want to make sure its not the area im going to.

[Fig sign]

Bruce ,if you are buying Haas 5 axes write me a letter and I `ll give you some tips ,that may help you

[ReDEyZZ]

quote:

---

Like I said, you know nothing about the machines.

---

O.K saipen, Haas is the same quality as mazak.(as long as you cut plastic)

[Midwest]

How about this........

 

on our &*%$# Hurco

 

 

the main power switch on the back

 

 

Red is ON

 

and

 

Green is Off

 

[Bruce Caulley]

Thanks for the offer Alex, while the machine is there there is always the chance that I will get a trunnion for it. I'll drop you a line if I do.

 

When we do get a dedicated 5 axis I will most likely look for something with Dynamic comp though. I know Haas don't have this and it is a real advantage.

 

Once this batch of machines is worn out, they will be replaced with Mori's.

 

Well, that is the plan anyway!

 

Bruce