Why is Mazak better than Haas?

[Randy Morton @ Clem Industrial]

Sadly not. I couldnt find it in the option last I looked so I gave it a spin on the machine and you could tell it did not have it I was trying to do a small job cause the manuals didnt have time to mill a square around the outside of a part....didnt go well at high speed.

[RandyN]

Let me break it down for you. If you work for someone else that has the bucks to buy stuff other than a Haas, you can bad mouth them all day long. If you work for a shop that has Haas machines, you can make parts and tools on them all day long (as we do here). If you are starting your own shop and need a decent machine for the money, Haas are fine and can make you a lot of money.

 

Most of the guys bad mouthing Haas here work for shops with deep pockets and have never had to buy one with their own money, so take their advice with a grain of salt...

[billystein]

"I have used many mazaks and haas' over the years, and the only place where i think there might be a good case for a haas is in the larger machines, VF6 and up. They are still junk, but unbelievable value when you try to compare them against similiar sized new machines. Just my .02"

 

 

Hi some,

this is very interesting to me because I feel that the smaller machines hold the advantage when purchasing haas and fadal machines. Most of my experience is with fadal and i have always had an issue with the large machines wearing out too quick. one 80 x 30 fadal I ran went through all 3 motors and 2 ballscrews in the first year of service. it is way too easy to overload this size of table with a big steel casting or even an large aluminum billet. with such a small base the table starts sagging very quickly.

on the other hand the 20 x 15 machines are very accurate and seem to stay accurate much longer. what they lack in horsepower and bulk is partially offset by good accuracy and lower price.

 

 

billy

[Hardmill]

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Most of the guys bad mouthing Haas here work for shops with deep pockets

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We got some high end machines for sure.

But we also got Fadals here too. "ssshhhhhh"

Dont tell anyone, were all pretty embarrassed.

 

 

PEACE

[mgsanchez]

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...Methods, Machinist, Machine thats what puts parts out the door seen plenty of high end machines not properly programed setup or run no matter what machine you have its not just the machine its the whole package

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That is so true!!

 

 

,

[John13]

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Dont tell anyone, were all pretty embarrassed.

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everybody is saying their embarrassed about the machines, but really it's cuz they work with you.

 

 

:waving cross country:

[Thee Dragracer1951]

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Most of the guys bad mouthing Haas here work for shops with deep pockets and have never had to buy one with their own money, so take their advice with a grain of salt...

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Well...

I own the shop. I own two Haas machines. I have a Mini an dan SL10 with a barfeed.

I got no b!tches with the Mini. Outside of the fact that it is billed as a 7 1/2 hp machine...

It's been pretty relaible. The SL10 is a piece of garbage. The Servo300 is a piece of garbage.

My SL10 breakes every 60 days like clockwork. The barfeed is the SLOWEST barfeed I have EVER seen in my life. Bar none.

It will drop the push bar on top of an incomming bar every time, alarming it out. If you drop a rem from the barfeed in the machine it'll kill the auger. It's REALLY poorly designed.

It's REALLY poorly assembled. It is a piece of junk.

Has it made me money? probably. I ain't just sure yet cause it costs me a pile of money every 60 days in parts, service and lost production.

Personally, I thinkHaas stuff is OK if you're just starting out and that's all you can afford. But really, most guys just starting out have no idea how to calculate ROI. Or why they should. They are buying on price alone.

We've simply outgrown Haas stuff. I'll keep what I have cause I can't sell them for much of anything. I'll use them where I can. I'm buying a 4020 Fadal that's in my new building also. I'm not a Fadal guy at all but it's a good deal, and I can put it to use.

I'm getting a Horizontal and most likely a second one to do Ti and Inconel on. Market to the machine!!!

[Hardmill]

Yer #1 keeb.

 

:1 finger raised:

 

 

PEACE

[MotorCityMinion]

Just an opinion, but for general machining of parts that don't require alot of stock removal, I prefer the Haas. With the very user friendly controls and easy access to the work area in the machine (V series), we get up and running fairly quickly. We also have a Makino S56 that absolutely runs circles around the Haas, at 4 times the cost though, and is a pain in the butt to set-up because money wasn't spent on control options and tooling. I can't stand the Mazak controls.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

dradracer1951 ive heard nothing but crap about that lathe for so long if its that big a problum WHY DIDNT YOU SEND IT BACK ???????i guess just a really poor decision on your part

[Hardmill]

 

 

PEACE

[John13]

Is this the finger you're holding up Hardmill

 

 

[Hardmill]

Actually is closer to this one :

 

 

 

PEACE

[OTOMMYO]

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the only place where i think there might be a good case for a haas is in the larger machines, VF6 and up. They are still junk, but unbelievable value

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I like this

Could be worse, I got a shop full of Fadals

[Thee Dragracer1951]

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dradracer1951 ive heard nothing but crap about that lathe for so long if its that big a problum WHY DIDNT YOU SEND IT BACK ???????i guess just a really poor decision on your part

 

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The machine was never right from the beginning. It is LONG since out of warantee.

Haas has told me tough sh!t for you. They have absolutely refused to make it right.

My bad decision was buying one in the first place.

Do you OWN one or are you just flappin your lips? I actually PAY for mine. Not just work on it.

It is absolutely a piece of junk. Haas couldn't care less if I'm not happy with it. There are 1300 more lined up every month to buy one.

The barfeed is simply a joke. Have you ever actually RUN one or are you just blindly defending them?

I don't know why you're so upset...it ain't your machine.

[mgsanchez]

In all fairness to Dragracer1951, Haas' SL-10 with a bar feeder is a problem child. Lot's of guys in this area have had nothing but problems with that package. In fact, they refuse to buy another Haas because of it.

 

 

,

[elraiis]

hass mill? haas is the best, forget the rest. precise, friendly and a fast cutter.. reads well ahead and respects corners without having to slow down when getting close to a corner to do it right like some... ehem, dumb machines.

[Guest]

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Most of the guys sucking up to Haas here work for shops with deep pockets and short arms and have never had to really make parts on one, the sales pitch sounded good enough, they are cheap with their own money, so take their advice with a grain of salt...

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fissed Randy

 

[jnicely]

No deep pockets here, yet I break alot more chips with my high end mazaks than I do my low end machines. At the end of the day you get what you pay for. If one can afford a Mazak it is definitely worthwhile. Mazaks are very reliable when it comes to heavy duty, accurate cutting. As long as one can truly afford it... Our first CNC's were Mazaks. Tinkered with several different brands. From here out I'll purchase nothing but Mazaks, they are reliable. Service is a different issue however...

[c-hook]

We have two VTC-20 Mazak mills, a Haas VF-3 and a Haas VF-5. Honestly, IMO the best thing about the Haas machines are the simplicity of their controls. They are very user friendly and straight forward. The vector drive is pretty weak. We come pretty close to stalling the spindle out hogging with a .500" 4fl em in steel. Not to mention all the vibration and rattling. Interpolating contours always seems to leave a faceted finish, which doesn't always look too good either. The VTC's on the other hand, are noticably more rigid and sturdy. The servos are WAY smoother when contouring, and with the added rigidity, getting good finishes on parts is much easier. The controls are laid our a bit differently, which takes some getting used to, but not complicated. Like someone mentioned before, it really depends on what you're building to justify the added cost.

 

Just to add.......our Haas mills need to be serviced on average of 3-5 times a year for things like, spindle replacements, CRT replacement, power supply replacements, Encoders, control boards, faulty switches, etc.

 

One of our Mazaks has had a spindle replaced recently, after about 12 years or more of service. Which isn't bad, considering the abuse our machines get every day. The one thing that I don't like about the Mazak VTC, is the design of the way covers. Every once in a while they bind up, and seperate, and they are a pain to put back together.

[Bruce Caulley]

quote:

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work for shops with deep pockets

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There may be a reason they have deep pockets?

Anyway, I am buying a Haas myself shortly, only because I am starting and a machine with an equivalent envelope to a GR-712 with extended Z is four times the price.

 

The problem I see with shops that replace cheap machine with expensive ones is that they don't also change their methods to suit the new machine's capacity. Then when they compare what they are doing on their new "M" machine with what they were doing before, they think that they may have wasted some money.

 

So to stay on topic, you would be able to run a Mazak at max Haas cutting parameters, but no chance in hell of running a Haas at max Mazak parameters. You get what you pay for.

 

Bruce

[RandyN]

John, you were the exact guy I was thinking about when I typed that. I happen to be able to make good parts on any machine, and you don't see me jumping into every thread when someone asks a question bad mouthing Haas or any other machine, unlike you.

 

Yes I feel the need to defend them sometimes, because people like you try to make me feel like a lesser person because my company uses Haas. My last job they had Fadals, and we made a lot of good molds on them too, and people bad mouthed them too.

 

When me and my dad and brothers had a shop, we had Mori's, so I do prefer other machines too, but a good programmer can make good parts on any machine, and as far as problems, for the ammount of work we put through our machines, we have no issues with occasional machine problems.

 

Edit: we have 2 6 axis Mazak lasers here, and they are nice machines, I'm sure the mills are decent too...

[Thad]

Why is price a factor? Go out and buy all the Moris you want. When you can't afford the payments and they threaten to repo them, the government will create a relief program to help you keep them.

 

Thad

[MACHINEMASTERG]

i like what Randy said a FEW people here always like to put the Hate on the Haas we have a sl-10 lathe without the bar feeded we have a bar puller works great makes us money $$$ we have 4 vf-4 with our own custom pallet systems we have mini mills , we have tool room mills and toolroom lathes and the md-500 all run great and RARLY do we have problums ..We have deep pockets $$$$ because we went with haas over 10 years ago and grew this company 10 fold because we did ....methods ..machinest ,machines ...oh yea all machines paid in full up front ...

[Hardmill]

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proud HAAS user

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ROFL

 

 

PEACE