Mastercam vs Unigraphics

[JAMES GABEL]

I would like to have your opinions on Mastercam vs Unigraphics.

 

My shop is having me look into learning unigraphics for manufacturing. I would like to get some input from you guys if I could.

[BernieT]

Please do a search James, this has been debated many times.

 

Include NX in your search.

[gcode]

Unigraphics is very powerful and very expensive.

I worked at a place that made the decision to

move from Mastercam/Solidworks to NX.

6 months in, with bills for maintenance, training

and post modification rolling in, they bagged it

and went back to Mastercam.

[Bruce Caulley]

http://www.emastercam.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...t=028994#000000

 

http://www.emastercam.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...t=007226#000000

[Thad]

I think when we looked at it, a single seat of UG machining was the same price as 2 mill level 3 seats of MC.

 

Thad

[gcode]

My current employer has a full multiaxis seat

with post builder. Annual maintenance was 2.5 times what you'd pay for a seat of MC mill L3 with solids. We dropped it last year.

I'd love to learn how to use it, but they never got any posts worked up for it and my boss gagged when he got the quotes for buying custom posts.

[Guest]

Unigraphics is an EXTREMELY powerful CAD, bottom line.

 

Unigraphics CAM can be a powerful CAM system.

 

Here's the problem in a nutshell.

 

Ease of use.

 

It will not take a "couple" of months to get comfortable and productive for "most" users, it will take the better part pf 12-18 months for the majority of users to get really comfortable and productive.

 

Training will be expensive, CAST, Computer Assisted Training, is a joke. Posts are a HUGE issue as mentioned.

 

They push the drag and drop concept of post builder, it works but only to a certain extent. Once you get outside of the "normal" working on the posts basically requires a computer programming degree for most users, not all but most. They of course will sell you posts and they will be well in the $xxxx.xx dollar range.

 

I have personally turned down $75+/hr contract rates to program in UG because I find it such a headache.

 

PS, the cost of my training in UG, just the CAM side was nearly 12k

 

PSS, the cost of 8 CAD seats and 1 CAM seat, maintenance per/yr was "almost" $50k/yr

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

The same pretty much goes for CATIA and Pro/Man for ease of use. Gonna take a LOOOOOONG time to get comfortable with it.

 

IMHO, if I were a Mold Shop, I would never, and I stress NEVER go with one of these "high-end" systems. Bottom line for your industry is you need to compete with people making 1/10th (on a good day) your salary. UG/CATIA/Pro/Man, WILL NOT help you compete. And for around like John said 12-18 months you are taking a throughput hit in programming. Is your company ready to take that hit? Gonna guess your customers won't be willing to wait a couple/few extra weeks for their mold?

 

Now if that were not enough, your boss needs to consider wages. Is your company prepared to pay market rate ($75 on up for contractor and $50+ not including benes for a direct hire) for a UG programmer? That's a massive hit especially considering the current economic climate.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

$50 an hour for a UG programmer?? Seriously?!?

If thats the case, then I was really getting ripped off when I was using NX

[Guest]

quote:

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$50 an hour for a UG programmer?? Seriously?!?

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IN many cases I have seen, six figures as a direct hire

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

Hmmmm...

Feel free to let me know if you hear of one of those openings Maybe living in the US wouldn't be so bad after all.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yeah, I was quoting a LOW figure. MOST UG Programmers I know (7 or 8 at last count) are pushing $200k as contractors. The 3 guys I know as direct are over $100k. I don't know if they are salary or hourly but they work an average of 50 hours a week. These are aerospace guys though.

 

You probably gotta triple that number to get a moldmaker...

[YoDoug®]

We just let our maintenance expire on 5 seats of MCX because we are transitioning into NX. It has its better points and it has its worse points than MCX. Its is slightly slower for simple programming but for 3D and multi-axis its blow MCX out of the water. Graphics are phenomenal compared to MCX. Toolpath calculation time is faster and the Verification/simulation actually checks things like clamps, vises, etc.

 

And as far as price It was about %40 more expensive than MCX but it does G-code driven machine simulation and sync-ing of multi-tasking tools and is a real CAD program, not some afterthought primitive solids add-on. We were paying maintenance on 5 seats of MCX, Vericut, Renishaw, and ProE. NX replaces all of those and is working well for us and we are saving money.

 

So far tech support has been on par with MCX, but we also had a really good MCX dealer so the standard is high for us.

 

And (flame suit on) I must be a better programmer than the rest of you cause I was comfortable in a month or two including making my own posts for a table/table five axis and sub spindle mill turns.

[Guest]

quote:

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It will not take a "couple" of months to get comfortable and productive for

"most"

users,

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Doug, you don't fall into the category of "most" users.

[YoDoug®]

quote:

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Doug, you don't fall into the category of "most" users.

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I'll take that as a compliment, Thank you.

[Guest]

quote:

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I'll take that as a compliment, Thank you.

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It was meant that way

 

[robk]

+1 Doug

I use NX6 for all my programming, with an exception of sometimes using Mastercam to alter/edit some older turning programs. Costs aside, NX(6)is the best software I have used up to date on both the CAD and CAM sides. Flame away

[Greg Williams]

quote:

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MOST UG Programmers I know (7 or 8 at last count) are pushing $200k as contractors. The 3 guys I know as direct are over $100k.

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Ok where do I apply?

[robk]

quote:

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Ok where do I apply?

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We were looking for help for a long time. I had the posting on this forum with no serious bites. After months of searching my company hired a person from California to move to Connecticut so they could help me with 5 axis programming using NX6. Trust me, the jobs are out there and they do pay very well.

[YoDoug®]

quote:

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After months of searching my company hired a person from California to move to Connecticut so they could help me with 5 axis programming using NX6.

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I thought your company didn't want to pay relocation or I would have been there in a heart beat.

[Greg Williams]

I am not great on US geography but luckily we have google and it tells me that is from one side of the country to the other - Wow.

 

Not that I want to hijack this thread but 100K odd US sounds like pretty good coin.

[robk]

quote:

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I thought your company didn't want to pay relocation or I would have been there in a heart beat.

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Hi Doug,

Relocation was not part of the package, but my company still made it worth it for that person to move cross-country.

[Mick]

I was headhunted about 7 or 8 years ago for a company in the US, wanting a UG programmer. I had spent about 7 years with UG (and about 7 with Mastercam). The salary was REALLY attractive. In the end however, they didn't want to hire me all the way from New Zealand

 

Shame though, as my family and I would h ave moved in a flash

[Bruce Caulley]

If I lived in NZ I'd move in a flash too.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Not that I want to hijack this thread but 100K odd US sounds like pretty good coin...

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It's a living wage...