Lathe Mill/Turn RANT!!!!!!

[gaijin_2007]

Sorry, apologies to Ron and others for the hijack.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

[hijack]

 

quote:

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I really, really like the look of the Cublex machine.

...Not for the average user though

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Definitely not. You do not want this to be your first machine. You want to have a good handle on programming, machine operation, setup, tooling, and workholding.

 

quote:

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CNC Apps Guy, do you know if Camplete have this machine sorted out yet?

Last I heard they were working with PowerMILL and FeatureCAM code to get TruePath to support the Cublex.

Any idea?

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I believe that Gibbs can support this machine. I am going to be working on a project for one in the next few weeks so I will be able to say how well it works with Mastercam or not. I would imagine that it would work well because you don't have any synchronization issues and no sub spindle issues. It's a 2 axis lathe that can function as a Horizontal Lathe or a Vertical Lathe depending on how you want to approach the part and if you're doing ID work (MUST BE IN VTL orientation), or OD VTL or HL will work, plus you get all the capabilities of a full featured 5-Axis machine.

 

[/hijack]

[Rob Dusenbury CAD/CAM CONSULTING]

Ron, You have Mail.

[Greg Williams]

HIJACK-2

 

Mastercam supports 5 axis mills with turning function.

 

Here is a part that I did completly in Mastercam a while back. There is 1 machine def and 1 post

 

 

2 spindles and 2 turrets is a different kettle all together

[chris m]

Greg, that is bada$$; thanks for sharing

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

That's a Mill-Turn.

[George Hardwick]

There is not a situation on earth with lathe work were a ID tool would retract from deep buried in part straight out in X Only in MC World! You have to use ref points,but this is never pointed out in any of the help files. You only learn this buy experience. Wrecked tools and lots of reset time. It will kill someone one day!!!!!

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

Change your leed out angle to like -5 degrees and it will work

[Josh T™]

I just got off the phone with an Esprit Salesman. We are looking for their Mill/Turn module to support our Tsugamis. It's sad when MC reps send your info to their competition.

[Karen Graf from CNC Software]

_________________________________________________

"There is not a situation on earth with lathe work were a ID tool would retract from deep buried in part straight out in X Only in MC World! You have to use ref points, but this is never pointed out in any of the help files. You only learn this buy experience. Wrecked tools and lots of reset time. It will kill someone one day!!!!!"

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Hi George,

 

Thanks for reporting this … we appreciate all feedback. Although we strive to make our documentation complete and accurate, we cannot cover every situation. Backplot and Verify simulate machining and provide ways to prevent loss of time and materials. Lathe improvements are planned and we will document them as they’re implemented.

 

Thank you for choosing Mastercam.

Mastercam Tech Docs

[Ron Branch @ Verisurf]

Ok I got an answer to my problem. The material WCS was not the same as the WCS I was using. Once this was changed then I was able to regen the operations. Thanks to Bob at CNC for finding the problem and helping get this resolved.

 

Here is a screen shot where to look:

 

If you look at the picture the WCS for the Material is different than the WCS I am using for the operations. Once I changed this back then life was good again. I wanted to let others know so they would not face the same troubles I did.

[Rob Peirolo CNC Software]

George.

I have been programming Lathes in Mastercam since version 3 and I have always used reference points when machining any I.D.

I do respect what you are alluding to, but without stock defined, and without reference points defined, how is Mastercam supposed to know where the front of the stock is?

[Sbarner]

quote:

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but without stock defined, and without reference points defined

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I've come across this even when stock is defined. Several times in fact. I am absolutely religious about defining my stock and my tools as accurately as possible. I've got a nice part in my "special part collection" from when the boring bar tried to go home through the part.

 

My issue is when one defines their stock accurately, why are reference points needed? They shouldn't be. Mastercam should know exactly what stock is there. Stock definition is taken care of from my end, but Mastercam drops the ball.

[Ron Branch @ Verisurf]

Of course the only problem I see with this is if you wanted to use 2 WCS for Mill/Turn work you would have a problem. I like the WCS approach for setting my main and sub spindle it helps when only using one model for the main and sub spindle verses the method currently used which involves stock transfer which I feel on a lot of parts is really not needed. I like to use the TOP WCS for the main spindle then d oa dummy stock transfer to call my code then use a copy of the TOP WCS for the sub spindle and has worked well for me in the past but in X4 and X4MU1 this approach seems to be giving me all type of problems. Hopefully we can get them addressed. I look forward to hopefully a MU2 to fix some of these issues I am seeing in MU1.

[Josh T™]

Since my reseller got some heat from it, I'd like to clarify on my earlier post......

 

We wanted a solution to program our Tsugamis and we went to our Mastercam Reseller - Barefoot CNC. Jimmy gave me a few options but we need an immediate solution... not months of development so we went in a different direction. The plant that houses this product uses Partmaker to program and I asked if MC would support it or would we need to look a different direction. From all of the info/advice I got from this Forum we decided to look in a different direction for swiss. We are completely happy with MC for our Milling and general Lathe programming but the consensus is that MC doesn't cut it for Swiss.

 

With that said....

Jimmy is a friend of mine. He won't xxxx on my leg and tell me it's raining. He and I both know how much work this was going to be. We have worked on several things and he/Barefoot has supported me on anything I have asked for. Their customer service is better than anyone elses I've dealt with.

 

Example:

 

I own Hondas. I need a work truck. I go to the Honda Dealership to get a work truck. They don't make/sell them so they send me to the Toyota Dealership to look at them.

 

Would the executives at Honda be upset at the dealership for not having work trucks to sell when Honda doesn't make anything close to a work truck???

 

If Honda really wanted to be in the work truck business they would design, manufacture and sell them.

 

If CNC Software was interested and passionate about Mill/Turn or swiss support then there would be a solution. If losing business from longtime customers bothers you... then do something about it!

 

 

Nuff Said

Josh

 

[ 10-23-2009, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Josh T ]

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

quote:

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Change your leed out angle to like -5 degrees and it will work

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Like I said before check your lead out angles

[Mic6]

quote:

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Here is a part that I did completly in Mastercam a while back. There is 1 machine def and 1 post

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Greg, PLEASE tell me you have hours of hog-out or plain cutting video of that part!

[Ron Branch @ Verisurf]

Well the current bug of not being able to Verify a Lathe and mill OP at the same is really making me look bad since I signed off on going back to Maintenance for X4. We skipped X3, but I was assured we would start seeing some stuff come X4 for Mill/Turns and yeT again we did not see anything. I have personally told 20 companies to look to other products for Mill/Turning. That was probably 30 seats of software CNC lost due to not have a honed product to do Mill/Turn. I know of other Members who have done the same thing. I think you could probably add over 100 seats in the last couple years that have been lost due to lack on Mill/Turn support so what is that worth??

 

[ 10-23-2009, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Ron Branch V & M Precision ]

[George Hardwick]

Rob.

All I am saying is if its an ID tool under what circumstance would you expect a rapid move straight out in X. It`s discription as an inside dia tool should give it a clue !

LOL George.

[mayday]

quote:

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told 20 companies to look to other products for Mill/Turning. That was probably 30 seats of software CNC lost due to not have a honed product to do Mill/Turn. I

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+1

wake up people

I'm with Ron

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'm at about 25 or 26 seats myself now for reccommending Esprit and Partmaker.

[Newbeeee™]

Well it looks like a point in the right direction

http://mastercamx.blogspot.com/

 

I assume it's to help s/w development opposed to going into the sub-con market...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

If it doesn't have an upper turret, a lower turret AND a Sub Spindle, it's pretty much useless IMHO.

[Joe788]

James, the ST denotes subspindle and lower turret, so they've got everything they need to start developing those mill turn paths. We'll see what happens.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I have no trouble programming for a lathe in MC. The issues for me have always been synchronization, easy management of wait codes and load balancing between spindles and turrets.

 

If MC would have been able to actually do what I saw 10 years ago, they would be fine and I would be able to reccommend it and we probably would not be ranting about the lack.