Who actually uses FBM?

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

I'm assuming a HUGE amount of time has been spent on Feature Based tool paths in MasterCam and considering the complete lack of attention to what the actual user base is screaming for.....

 

Do YOU actually use FBM?

 

I have NEVER used it nor have I EVER used ART or anything but "Tabbing" in router even though I was a router guy for years.....

 

I'm not calling out CNC on this, just curious because someone has to be using this function or else why would CNC deem it a priority over say Mill/Turn?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

6 year olds use it evidently.

 

Oh, and that's a "HELL NO" for my vote.

 

My 2¢ is that they want to play to the wannabe programmers in the trade, or to those that in all honesty have parts that are very basic and don't deserve more than a few mouse clicks.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

quote:

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My 2¢ is that they want to play to the wannabe programmers in the trade, or to those that in all honesty have parts that are very basic and don't deserve more than a few mouse clicks.

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Who is that? I have yet to meet anyone that fits this bill?

 

Are these the guys spending $20K+ on full Multiaxis/solid/lathe/volumill plus maintenance on all said packages?? I think not!

 

I think CNC is on thin ice right now...

[Joe788]

Methinks the one guy who said, "Yes, I use it frequently." is BSing!

[YoDoug®]

On the Esprit forum seasoned users say MCX, Surfcam, etc are all crap.

 

On the MCX forum seasoned users say Esprit, Surfcam, etc are all crap.

 

On the Surfcam forum seasoned users say MCX, Esprit, etc are all crap.

 

The common denominator is that long time users of a certain CAM system are very brand loyal. In todays shrinking manufacturing economy there are less and less first time CAM buyers. Hence the problem, how do you get a company that has been using brand xxxxx for years to buy your software. This is where FBM comes in. Managers love the thought of "so easy a six year old can do it". It makes them feel empowered and think they will not need to worry about keeping a top notch programmer. Heck, if he quits one of the designers can just make toolpaths, it was that easy in the demo we saw.

[Dave.L]

In many threads the users of MC have expressed dissatisfaction toward CNC software's priorities and the development of new technology, the enhancement of old and the fix of bugs. I have participated in these threads.

 

But, there comes a time when a customer as we all are, cannot continue to stay loyal based on faith alone, I say faith because CNC software does not communicate there intentions to the customers. So, when that point comes, it's best to look for a solution that makes best sense for your business and that solution may be a new system. While it may be painful to make a change, it may be less painful than the status quo.

[jeff]

I chose #2, haven't used it yet, but I do see that it COULD be useful if it's done right.

 

But I also think it could be a selling point to shop owners that know nothing about programming on Cad software.

From not having messed with it much, it seems like an awful lot of prep, and setting up everything just to get it to work on a consistent basis.

I don't have the time to go through everything, I'm making chips!

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Doug,

Those companies are the reason we've lost all our jobs to China! Your telling me CNC is following them down that rabbit hole??

 

I've used Gibbs and I actually purchased Esprit and went to Chicago for a weeks training before learning how inadequate it was for my needs. I know the how kick xxxx MasterCam is as a software but I also know how pathetic it is in the most basic functionality! It's like a love/hate relationship.

 

If as much resources were spent on real user issues as was/is spent on FBM and Art we wouldn't be having this discussion, period!

 

I know your playing devils advocate Doug, I just wanted to give my opinion on your valid points.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

quote:

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This is where FBM comes in. Managers love the thought of "so easy a six year old can do it". It makes them feel empowered and think they will not need to worry about keeping a top notch programmer. Heck, if he quits one of the designers can just make toolpaths, it was that easy in the demo we saw.

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And once they learn you cant move a "Face Op" in lathe without destroying it they become another one of us, on this forum screaming to be heard and get what we pay for!

[ablucra]

Have used it maybe half dozen times on basic stuff. Not much use for it .

[Mcam Nut]

quote:

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Do YOU actually use FBM?

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We have FBM?

[YoDoug®]

I guess my point was how much and where software development dollars are spent is a business decision. Shops that are using other lathe packages like Esprit or Partmaker already have the functionality they need. Likewise MCX shops that have been paying maintenance on MCX lathe for years will be pretty upset if they have to fork over $$$$$ for new module for MMT. I just don't see where the return of invested development dollars would come from for CNC to hurry up with MMT.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Your saying the market is larger for Router/Art/FBM then for MMT??

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

quote:

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Your saying the market is larger for Router/Art/FBM then for MMT

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Look at how much routers cost, vs. how much a MMT machine costs, and then ask yourself that question. I would be willing to bet that here in BC, over %50 of MC sales are to people with routers.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

I guess I shouldn't really drag router into this conversation since there really hasn't been alot of change in Router. Really all I've seen is the nesting function improved. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

Maybe I'm crazy but if I was a software developer and I had access to a user base that was as talented as the MasterCam bunch, I would include them in the development of my software and not ignore the most obvious problems for the sake of getting some ignorant manager to buy into the hype (FBM) in order to generate another sale.

 

Maybe I'm just in a ranting mode lately....

[K2csq7]

I can see it now, my boss comes up to me after a tool breaks and says " why were you using that tool?", then I say, "Mastercam programmed it, not me!"

[Thee Rickster ™]

No Idea what it does..Is it for 2-d grammin?

Is it like Surfcams Step Reduction Milling?

Can I machine a 3-d mold base using FBM including

waterlineRest and Rest Roughing paths?

 

Is it Free? (with the lvl 3 package?)

 

[dolphin1]

first you have to get it to work without crashing.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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quote:

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My 2¢ is that they want to play to the wannabe programmers in the trade, or to those that in all honesty have parts that are very basic and don't deserve more than a few mouse clicks.

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Who is that? I have yet to meet anyone that fits this bill?

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Me either, but they MUST be out there or else I can't imagine that they would dumb things down like that.

 

I guess I would be in the "brand loyal" camp for the most part. I do however have 3 other CAM Systems at my disposal (Esprit, Partmaker and CATIA). I'm onlt proficient at CATIA, and need more training on Esprit and Partmaker. Considering as little as I know about Esprit and Partmaker, I see many areas where they just blow the doors off MC hands down. For single turret, main with sub spindle machines, MC does well enough that I don't have many real complaints. Where MC just has an EPIC FAIL, is the simulation, load balancing and synchronization for machines with not only main and sub spindles but those machines with upper, lower, right and left turrets (or some combination of the two). Which unfortunately counts for such a high percentage of lathes we sell that I cannot in good conscience (also my boss PROHIBITS it), reccommend MC for that situation.

 

I use CATIA mostly for modeling and design but occasionally it is a good candidate for some heavy 5-Axis stuff.

 

JM2C

[Saultspics]

FBM Drill works okay for some of the work we do, but so did solid drill. I have not tried FBM Mill.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

I think it's important to note that the type of user FBM is targeted at also the type less likely to be a member of this board, thus skewing the results of the poll.

[JDowe]

FBM drill has autmatically found muiltiple hole sizes and set multiple planes for drilling

cylinders

[koko76]

You talk about the Art package like it's useless, and to many people working in a machine shop it is. Fact of the matter is that it DOES represent a new potential customer base. It's easier than ever to buy a CNC machine for home/home business use, or even put together your own. Many people are building a home business with one of these machines, and need software to make it run, and they have no interest in machining the parts typically talked about here (nor do they have the skills to make it happen). While the market may not be one you agree with, it does exist.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

It's not useless. I was always told "don't do a bunch of things half xxxx".

 

MasterCam has this wonderful function called "Stock Flip". It is the best damn thing ever, until you simulate it in verify.....

 

Without the base (Mill/Lathe) all other products don't exist. Let's focus on the base?

[Roger Peterson]

FBM Drill is great, not as awesome as Moldplus' ProDrill but it works really well with very minimal setup. If you haven't used FBM Drill you should really give it a go.

 

For every mold that needs hard milling and electrode machining, there is an A plate, a B plate, an Ejector plate, an... That need drilling and 2d machining.

 

 

FBM Mill is useful, but not for everyone or every part, and many people don't want to give over that much control. I just FBM rough and finish milled a pocket that had all kinds of islands, many right next to the walls at different heights, something that would have taken me a long time to generate all the wireframe geometry neccesary to program manually. And, it really takes very little setup to get working. Creating a tool library is one thing that really helps.