"W" Axis

[Grant]

Hi there.

Our shop is looking at purchasing a C.N.C borer, so the question has been asked how do you cope with a “W” axis (quill) with Mastercam? Not knowing the answer, I am hoping some one has had some experience with this situation; any advice will be greatly received,

 

Thanks, in advance,

Grant.

[Jack Mitchell]

Grant,

 

Your question is actually one of the most loaded I have seen; I will, however, try to respond.

 

Assumed that the Cnc Borer refers to a Cnc Horizontal machining center.

 

XYZ are the three primary axis

ABC

IJK

UVW

These are all relative to XYZ. (I just love this programming).

 

A rotary motion against the Z axis would be the “W” axis.

Therefore; the quill will always be the Z axis since this is always the primary axis that revolves.

This is why the chuck of a Cnc lathe is called Z and not a “Y” axis.

 

I am not trying to confuse anybody here, so please follow along this reasoning.

 

The horizontal quill is the Z axis.

“W” in this case would be an independent rotary axis directly facing your quill – this in itself does not typically lend itself to a useful or productive machine.

 

Could it be that you are referring to a rotary table that the tombstones, workpiece, vices, etc! Are sitting upon?

If this is the case or question, then yes! Mastercam will handle this easily as will any other cam solution.

 

There is a bone of contention between the Japanese interpretation and the American one regarding a rotary motion along an axis. This is why some machine tools will have a 4th axis rather than A,B,C. This happens when a rotary table can be mounted in three or more fashions thereby pointing at each one of the three axis OR, none of the three primary’s.

 

The machine tool your company is considering is not a minor purchase by any means.

I would strongly suggest attending IMTS in Chicago to satisfy your question and please check out the Mastercam booth – these people are professionals, also ask Jayson – I know he has been around and will definitely point you in the right direction – I believe he also will have a booth at IMTS.

 

Regards, Jack

[gcode]

There are several large gantry mills where I

work. The vertical axis (Z) is the quill.

X and Y are the table which travel in the convetional directions.

The quill (Z) is supported by a large cross beam

(W) which moves up and down. The W axis is fully

programmable. The quills have about 35 inches of travel and the W's can move 6 to 10 feet depending on the machine.

 

In most case we just postion the W axis at the start of a program so that the quill (Z) will have enough travel to do the required machining.

I don't think Mastercam has any way of programming for a W axis automatically.

 

If you had to machine a part which exceeded the travel of the quill you could probably do it with

the WCS. You could set up WC's with the same

X and Y loctaion and different Z heights to

imitate the W going up or down a set amount.

 

With current posts, you'd have to maually edit the gcode adding W moves at the proper place. The quill moves would be correct because the different WC's would be simulating the W moves.

A good post writer could probably modify a post

to subsitute W moves for the G54 adn G55's output when you switch WC's.

[kccadcam]

Grant,

Look at this picture of our Toshiba horizontal boring mill.

 

http://www.cvm-inc.com/cvm_004e_facilities...es_toshiba.html

 

The whole column moves in and out for Z axis and the spindle will extend out up to 28 inches from the main head for the W axis.

Basically we program the machine normally as a horizontal and set the W manually. It automatically compensates for the difference between Z and W.

The table moves back and forth for X axis, the spindle head up and down for the Y axis, and the table rotates about the B axis.

Is this the type of machine your looking at??

Toshiba's are Awesome machines, very stable.

(this machine weighs 110,000 pounds!)

 

[ 09-02-2002, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark, Central Valley Machine ]

[Grant]

Thanks for the replies,

Sorry for the lack of info, bad habit of mine. Yeh Jack we are off to IMTS, we do have to come from under the Equator, so it’s quite a trip. Kevin, this is exactly the type of machine that is on our shopping list, we are in fact looking at Toshiba, Giddens & Lewis, Kuraki and Jobs, although we are looking for bigger than your BP-30. We plan to use the machine for tombstone (esp. cube) work so the quill would be in and out all day, so I was looking for and easy way of controlling this. How do you find the controller to use Kevin? Any other general comments about your Toshiba?

Thanks,

Grant

[Mick]

Grant,

 

From how far under the equator are you coming? As in New Zealand?

I'm figuring that you've just come back from a trip to the US

[PE @ IHS]

Hi Jack

 

The W axis on a boring mill is not a rotary axis. It is an physical extension of the Z axis. The rotary axes available on milling machines are the A (around X), B (around Y), and C(around Z axis)

 

Peter Eigler

[Grant]

Now Mick, that’s just about a little scary for me! Please explain, I didn’t’ realise the US was so small, how much did you see?? I wasn’t really at “that” place. It must have been someone else. Ahhhhh.

[Jack Mitchell]

Peter E,

 

Thank you for your response - I have not worked a horizontal machining center for 15 years and have never had the pleasure to work on a large conventional boring mill.

 

I also should have stated as follows:

 

XYZ are the primary axis

ABC or 4TH are the rotary axis

IJK vectors along the primary axis

UVW motion along the primary axis

 

4TH, I believe to be the Japanese influence regarding a skewed rotary axis – one that does not revolve along any of the primary axis OR one that can placed along the primary’s as well –this is due to the flexibility of the many rotary tables available.

 

The UVW argument may or may not allow rotary motion – perhaps somebody more knowledgeable could respond to the forum regarding this question!

 

I would die for the chance to work on the Hexapod that was developed in Russia – has anybody in the forum actually seen or worked on one of these?

 

Another interesting fact about Eia/Iso code - go through each letter of the alphabet (they are all used) sort of neat hey – a student pointed this out to me a few weeks ago.

 

Regards, Jack

[cadcam]

quote:

---

a student pointed this out to me a few weeks ago.

---

Can you emphasize on this a little.

 

Who's student your's or another instructor?

 

Lights are coming on a little still a dim light thow.

[kccadcam]

Grant,

We modified the stock Fanuc post to spit out H901,

H902, etc. instead of G54 and just added a default value of W-10. for the spindle. We haven't really had a situation yet that we have to move the W around much during machining so haven't really looked into it.

Really the only complaint I have with this machine is there is no full enclosure (it would be the size of a small house!!) so coolant thru drills and boring heads are a REAL MESS. Also the safety factor being so close to the spindle with chips flying around (We've actually had chips bounce off the ceiling with a 1.25 Valenite coolant thru insert drill!!) But rigid tapping is totally Awsome to watch! (1x8 spiral tap to within .1 of a flat bottom hole at 100 RPM, Wow!)

 

[ 09-02-2002, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark, Central Valley Machine ]

[chris m]

Here goes Kevin, showing off his cool toys with those pictures again...

 

Hey; can your shop really be that clean? If so; where do I send my resume...?

 

C

[Mgrenier]

Hey Grant,

 

We also have a lot of Toshiba machines like Kevin and I must say that the W axis is a must if you plan to buy a rotary table. Just a reminder though, on Toshiba's machines, the W axis is only for positionning which means that you have to get your W axis out and then, you can go on with your programming.

 

As far as programming the W axis with mastercam, it depends on your company. Here, the machinists have total access to the programs and they modify the programs to get the W out by themselves. I have seen some companies that put the value they wanted the W to come out in the Misc. values.

 

Both ways are equally good since Toshiba has one G code that will move the W to the length you want and compensate the active work offset for the z axis without changing the values you first wrote in your work offset page. You can also change the W value from one tool to the other without any problem.

 

Toshiba has a great Gcode that does the job, but that is assuming that you install a Tosnuc control on the machine. If you ask me, Tosnuc controls are more user friendly for the machinists and the G codes do not differ alot.

 

Hope this helps,

 

[ 09-03-2002, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: marting ]

[heeler]

quote:

---

If so; where do I send my resume...?

---

You better get a good coat and boots, It snows and blows alot there.

Their shop is really clean though been there a couple of times.

 

Kevin,

I'm going to have to meet you sometime if I get back up that way.

[kccadcam]

You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words!!!

Yes it is ALWAYS that clean!

I would hate to work in a rathole like some shops I've seen.

We have an exellent maintenence dept. and we also have a major cleanup once a month. (clean machines, change coolant, etc.)

Chris, just E-mail your resume on over!

Come on up heeler, we'll definitely have to shoot the breeze sometime. We've built some pretty wild parts for you guys over the years.

 

[ 09-03-2002, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark, Central Valley Machine ]

[Allan]

I've set up applications where the W axis was used for drilling opps, or when a switch was set. The quill range was short in comparsion to these monsters ~12"

I would personally keep the quill as close to the head as I could.