O/T One tin soldier - rides away!

[steve f]

quote:

 

"I think we should light off a nuke a hundred miles or so (definitely within eyesight) of Baghdad! Send a message..... They seem to like to send messages, let's send one of our own, from half a world away no less. Let those rat xxxx know they've messed with the best and that they should be prepared to die like the rest. "

 

I lean a little more towards the whole ".50 caliber from half a mile away" idea. A little homework would reveal that the Iraqi people have a lot less distain for America than Saddam and his hench men. This idea of "to hell with all of them" is exactly the kind of foreign policy that continuously puts America in the bad books with the majority of the Middle East. I in no way condone terrorism and those who conspired 9/11 should pay the due consequence but shooting first and asking questions later is a proven mistake. Did the West ever take the time to think about where Saddam got the technology and know how to produce these weapons? 30 some odd years ago the States poured billions of dollars into Iraq to aid in the war against Iran and now it is costing. I just think some foresight is in order although it appears to be too late for that since war is inevitable with Iraq. My 2c.

 

Steve

[KJS]

I wonder if one of the reasons so many countries are opposed to us hitting Iraq is if they were for us they would have to join the fight. Is this another case of the U.S. doing the rest of the world's dirty work?

[Tony]

DOH!

"I won't be back until 11:45PM eastern time on Feb. 6th, please tow the line and try to avoid the padlock situation".

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Is this another case of the U.S. doing the rest of the world's dirty work?

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I believe you have a good point. The answer is probably yes. The MAJORITY of the world secretly backs the US, but in order to not offend, they trash us in public. Like the French..... Unfortunately we only hear of the disdain the poilticians and the vocal minority have for us, when in reality the vast majority of French support most US policies because if it were not for the US, there would be no France today, all of Europe would be Germany. Some in the world liken us to the "School Yard Bully" when in reality we're more like the World Police. Who else is going to step in and try to make this place better???? Anyone?????

[TheePres]

No peace-nik here, since issue is decided Im for it 110% percent. Where do i get my sniper rifle issued from?? And where will i meet up with Sydney Bristow?

[Trevor Bailey]

Very well put James. We are the "World Police".

 

I say screw the UN Council. Lets do what needs to be done and then keep on rolling with all the other idiots like N Korea and so on.

[Julie's_Man]

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured 1,000; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

 

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

 

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

 

After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

 

After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S. sailors; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

 

After September 11th ... Does anyone get it?

[iowajim62]

Yeah I get it. Don't vote for liberal democrats who have never served in the Armed Forces of this great country of ours. Don't vote for liberal dems who want to kill the Pentagon budget. Don't vote for liberal dems who will not like being servants to some scumbag tyrant who takes over the world because the USA didn't do what was needed.

[Toolfab]

Terevor, I wouldn't exactly say "screw the U.N." although I do belive that this has taken far toooooo long. Everyone is entitled to due process, that is one of the primary beliefs in or judicial system. That being said the "due process" was satisfied over 12 months ago and the leaders of Iraq should be terminated by know.

 

The U.N. has served its purpose in the past, but right now all they are doing is delaying the inevitable. Taking Sadom out of power is the right thing to do for the US and the rest of the world. We need to prevent another tragatiy before it happens. As Collin Powell said yesterday in his breifing, the Iraq goverenment has DIRECT ties to al-quida, and (what a surprise) they are harboring BX, Nerve, and other weapons of mass destruction.

 

What more evidance does the world need, who else needs to die before terrorist friendly nations start to pay for the lives they have cost.

 

To those of you who don't support this action, that is fine, that is your right, just thank a fatherless son a vet for the freedom to do so. Because ALL of our freedoms came from a solder who was willing to die for our country and the people who choose to live here. And it is a choice!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Article below snagged from Jane's Defense well respected worldwide authorities on matters such as this.

 

Jane's Website

 

quote:

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Chemical and biological weapons capabilities, terrorist links discussed in Powell briefing to UN

 

By Rob Fanney

 

US Secretary of State Colin Powell in his briefing to the UN outlined information about Iraq's continued chemical and biological weapons programmes and its links with the Al-Qaeda network.

 

Building on his case implicating Iraqi officials for their concealment of weapons of mass destruction, Secretary of State Powell stated that a number of sources have reported that Iraq has constructed sophisticated mobile biological weapons laboratories. These laboratories, he claimed, could be distributed among 18 separate trucks and could be used to produce biological agents such as anthrax and ricin.

 

Powell also cited US intelligence reports indicating that Iraq retains a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons as well as some 16,000 rockets with which to deliver those weapons on the battlefield. In addition, Powell asserts that Iraq possesses four tons of VX gas. VX is of particular concern as it is highly lethal; a 10mg drop is enough to kill a grown man.

 

Powell also noted that a network headed by Al-Qaeda's Abu Musab Zarqawi has been operating in Iraq for more than eight months and is being given operational support by Baghdad. Zarqawi is thought to have been involved in the October assassination of US diplomat Laurence Foley in Jordan and the suspected ricin plot in the UK.

---

And still more;

 

quote:

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Powell delivers Iraqi smoking gun speech to Security Council

 

By janes.com editor Peter Felstead

 

With today's presentation to the UN Security Council in New York by US Secretary of State Colin Powell, the administration of President George W Bush has risked exposing the true extent of America's electronic intelligence-gathering capabilities for one purpose: to present a casus belli for military action against Iraq.

 

Looking to secure a further UN resolution against the regime of Saddam Hussein that might itself sanction the use of force against the Iraqi regime, Powell's speech had three clear goals: to present convincing evidence that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction (WMD); to clearly show to the international community that Iraqi personnel have systematically evaded and obstructed the work of UN weapons inspectors seeking access to those weapons; and to present convincing evidence of a link between the Iraqi regime and terrorist networks including Al-Qaeda.

 

In a presentation entitled: Failing to Disarm, Powell used transcripts from intercepted phone conversations between Iraqi officials, satellite photographs of Iraqi weapon facilities and also gave details of intelligence garnered from human sources to present. The picture he presented was, as he stated, "not one of reluctant co-operation . . . but a deliberate campaign of deception".

 

While the phone transcripts effectively revealed Iraqi military officials discussing the hiding of prohibited weapons and equipment, the satellite photographs also showed the active measures taken to evacuate materials in advance of UN weapons inspectors arriving. Other satellite images were used to present evidence of ongoing activity in the production of chemical and biological weapons (CW/BW) and the further development of ballistic missile technology.

 

Powell also presented intelligence on Iraq 's mobile biological weapons factories, Iraqi development of unmanned aerial vehicles for use as CW//BW delivery platforms, the hiding and intimidation of Iraqi scientists and continued Iraqi efforts to development nuclear weapons. "Saddam Hussein," he stated, "is determined to get his hands on a nuclear bomb."

 

Turning to Saddam's links with terrorists, Powell presented intelligence to corroborate US assertions that Al-Qaeda members were travelling and operating freely in Baghdad and that the network of Abu Musab Zarqawi, said to be a leading Al-Qaeda chemical and biological weapons expert, was being harboured by the Iraqi regime.

 

Significantly, Powell's presentation came a day after the televised interviewing of Saddam Hussein by the British anti-war MP Tony Benn. Asked whether Iraq had any weapons of mass destruction, the Iraqi leader replied: "There is only one truth and therefore I tell you, as I have said on many occasions before, that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction whatsoever." He also denied any links with Al-Qaeda. In light of the catalogue of intelligence presented to the UN by Powell, that interview may now not have the effect that Saddam would have desired.

---

Any questions???

 

[ 02-06-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Scott Bond]

Hi all

quote:

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Any questions???

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Do we have any forum members actualy posting from Iraq?,,,,,,,,,,,,,North Korea?

 

[ 02-06-2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[Toolfab]

It would be intresting to get there commentary on this subject wouldnt it, Mr. Bond.

 

BTW thanks to Webby for allowing us to have this debate!

[Scott Bond]

Yes I think they can speak up here .

I do not beleave the us proClinton media, when it comes to national defence.Just My not so H.O.

[L Hanft]

Feeling patrotic, proudly serving your country. These issues get lost when you are the one getting shot at, survival becomes the only item on the menu. I can still remember the smell of the jungle, dirt, gunpower, sweat.... death. The odor that fills the air from the body parts of a person that moments before stood near you....

 

But then again, I can still hear, "Baby killers" shouted by the demonstrators. The deepest, longest lasting memory.... Being blamed for the conflict in Vietnam by the Nation I fought for... its people and its government.

 

When this war begins and the battles or conflicts become prolonged, will the Nations interest and support wane? Will this generation of soldiers face hardships when the get home? I hope not.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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But then again, I can still hear, "Baby killers" shouted by the demonstrators. The deepest, longest lasting memory.... Being blamed for the conflict in Vietnam by the Nation I fought for... its people and its government.

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That sucks. That really sucks.

[resjun]

Here's a different view on this story

(you own a pittbull dog)

american goverment eary 80's give idiot saddam chemical weapons I even seen donald rumsfeld shooting the breaze with saddam on a video from rengans time in office during iran & iraq 10 year war.

back to the pittbull story it crap's on the floor you the owner clean the mess up.yourself

[Tony]

It work's for me....

Can we park are Stuff on your land

for a little while

as we go about the cleaning?

 

[ 02-06-2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[gcode]

As a young Marine I got spit on by a stupid

jerk at Los Angles Interntional Airport. It was 1976, I was 8 months out of boot camp wearing my dress greens. I was very lucky. The LAX cop who arrested me was Vietnam vet. Out of sight of the crowd, he took the cuffs off, thanked me and told me not to miss my flight to Japan.

 

[ 02-06-2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[Jack Mitchell]

Friends,

 

Just observing tonight but will continue to hold my tongue for the moment.

 

Thank you Webmaster for allowing this discussion to take place in our forum.

 

Nobody has mentioned the title of this very thread, perhaps I should have called it something else?

 

Regards, Jack

[Philcott]

Jack,

 

I will mention the name of the thread.

Written by Dennis Lambert & Brian Potter (1969)

 

quote:

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The Lyrics to "One Tin Soldier"

 

Listen children, to a story, that was written long ago. About a kingdom, on a mountain, and the valley folk below.

 

On the mountain, was a treasure, burried deep beneath a stone and the valley people swore they'd have it for their very own.

 

Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend, do it in the name of Heaven, you can justify it in the end. There wont be any trumpets blowing, come the judgement day. On the bloody morning after, One Tin Soldier rides away.

 

So the people of the valley, sent a message up the hill, asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill. Came an answer, from the kingdom, with our brothers, we will share, all the secrets, of our mountain, all the riches buried there.

 

Now the valley, cried with anger, mount your horses, draw your swords, and they killed the, mountain people. So they won their just rewards. Now they stand, beside the treasure, on the mountain, dark and red. Turned the stone, and looked beneath it... "Peace on earth" was all it said.

 

Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend, do it in the name of Heaven, you can justify it in the end. There wont be any trumpets blowing, come the judgement day. On the bloody morning after, One Tin Soldier rides away.

---

Phil

[Jack Mitchell]

Friends,

 

In my closing remarks on this initial thread asked a question. It would seem that I recalled an interesting fact that was mentioned to me many years ago concerning Time magazines “man of the year”.

1938 Adolf Hitler, 39 Joseph Stalin, 40 Winston Churchill, 41 Franklin Roosevelt, 42 Joseph Stalin and on and on.

Isn’t it odd that today’s modern day hero can easily become tomorrow’s tyrant? Leaders as such do walk a fine line between what the world views as good or evil.

 

Let’s be honest with ourselves here: this war has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction, chemicals, or nuclear; I believe this to be a showdown of defiance and control.

 

“Self proclaimed Arab champions, like Libya and Syria, have gone mute. No wonder Osama bin Laden remains so popular.

The only Arab leader to show any gumption over the past decade is Saddam Hussein. However cruel or disastrous his rule, Saddam alone, stood up to the Middle East’s modern colonial power, the United States.

 

Saddam’s refusal to surrender in 1991, and his continuing defiance of Washington, is why the U.S. and Britain have bombed Iraq for the past ten years, and why President Bush is so determined to crush Iraq and kill its leader. It’s not about weapons of mass destruction, it’s about defiance.

 

The U.S. is determined to make an example of Iraq to teach the rest of its client Arab states the terrifying cost of disobedience. “Good” Arabs who cooperate will be rewarded with more money and arms. Those who fail to join Bush’s crusade face regime change and liberation”.

 

My hopes and prayers go with both my American brothers and my Arab brothers for this war, I believe, will go down with a meticulous crawl to ensure the maximum effect of taking down a country one brick at a time.

 

It was the picture of a young Iraq woman holding an automatic weapon over her head with a war cry that inspired me to write this very thread; if that was an American, a Britain, Canadian, or any other country, would you also not be proud of your sister or daughter if this were she? – She will defend an attack on her country with honor; she will die proudly fighting as any one of us would as well.

Going into another country to destroy it for the world’s protection doesn’t hold water for me, I’m sorry but I disagree with world events as they are as such, hence the title “one tin soldier rides away”.

 

Whether you choose to be supportive or vehemently oppose this aggression, I do not pass judgment. I only wish for a peaceful solution and for harmony to once again formulate within the Arab countries. – For there but for fortune shall go you and I.

 

The quotes are from Eric Margolis a foreign affairs editor.

 

Regards, Jack

[TheePres]

Not a personal opinion, just something that was sent my way:

 

Sung to the tune: "If You're Happy And

You Know It Clap Your Hands"

 

If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.

If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq.

If the terrorists are Saudi

And the bank takes back your Audi

And the TV shows are bawdy,

Bomb Iraq.

 

If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.

And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.

If the smoking gun ain't smokin'

We don't care, and we're not jokin'.

That Saddam will soon be croakin',

Bomb Iraq.

 

Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.

From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.

So to hell with the inspections;

Let's look tough for the elections,

Close your mind and take directions,

Bomb Iraq.

 

While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.

Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.

If the ozone hole is growing,

Some things we prefer not knowing.

(Though our ignorance is showing),

Bomb Iraq.

 

So here's one for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq,

From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq.

Saying no would look like treason.

It's the Hussein hunting season.

Even if we have no reason,

Bomb Iraq.

[KJS]

Jack,

You call America a colonial power? I hope you're joking. Countries with peaceful retations with America are much better off then those that don't.

Saddam wants to be the leader of the Arab world and the only way he can do this is if he has a cause. He doesn't have a real one so he creates one with the U.S. As I've said in earlier post Saddam posseses weopons of mass destruction and has shown his willingness to use them. This constitutes a threat that we can't morally ignore. To believe Iraq doesn't posess these weapons and to think inspectors will solve the problem is a lesson in gulability.

[Bpin]

Right ...Wrong... or Indeferent... Remember to support our troops now and when the come home.

Too many Vets are forgotten...

[McRae]

quote:

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Right ...Wrong... or Indeferent... Remember to support our troops now and when the come home.

Too many Vets are forgotten...

---

The other truth in the matter is that "history is written by the victor"